00;00;00;11 - 00;00;25;26
Mike
Welcome back, Personal Development Scope podcast listeners and viewers, we have a special podcast for you today. So as you remember last year we did the ask an essay, Anything podcast. Today we're doing the Ask an app, Anything podcast. So we asked our community from the Personal Development School to send us questions to ask some anxious, preoccupied individuals. And we rounded up two of the best people that I know, Rene and Amanda.

00;00;25;28 - 00;00;41;09
Mike
They were previously anxious, preoccupied, but have done a lot of work on healing, a lot more secure. I don't know what percentage you guys want to say you are, but I know you've done a lot of work on yourselves and you have a lot of insight into sort of anxious, preoccupied and some of the challenges that come with it.

00;00;41;09 - 00;01;04;19
Mike
And then in healing sort of what you had to do to get there. So we're really excited to hear about that and hear more about you and your journey and inspire some people who are listening today. So I just want to start off Rene and Amanda, first of all, thanks for being here. I was wondering if you can give a quick little introduction and then we'll start with some of our questions that our viewers want to know about Anxious, preoccupied.

00;01;04;22 - 00;01;27;24
Rene
Thanks, Mike. So happy to be here. And yes, so I. My name's Rene. I was definitely very, very, very anxious, preoccupied, did a lot of work. I now work for the Personal Development School. I teach the emotional resilience class and I also co-host and do the post webinar hosting. So I like to do this after parties. I've been with PDS for a while and just happy to be here.

00;01;27;24 - 00;01;28;29
Rene
Thank you so much.

00;01;29;02 - 00;01;31;02
Mike
Excellent. And Amanda.

00;01;31;05 - 00;01;57;29
Amanda
Thanks, Mike. It's Amanda Harris. I've been with the personal development schools probably since about 21 and did lots of work to treat it. Always joke that it was like a second job. And then whenever the coaching came along, that first that first round did the coaching. And I'm a certified integrated attachment theory coach and doing doing some of that on the side and excited that's one of my goals for the year is to do some more work on building up my clientele for that, for the coaching.

00;01;57;29 - 00;01;59;27
Amanda
So thank you so much for having us on.

00;02;00;02 - 00;02;11;26
Mike
Yeah, of course, for sure. And obviously, you know, I've seen you guys in the school for the last little while and you've both done amazing and come such a long way. So it's kind of an honor to to talk to you guys today, and I think we'll have a good time.

00;02;11;29 - 00;02;21;05
Amanda
I feel like the three of us really met and got to know each other and got friends. When we first started hosting that communication scripts class. And we had so much fun in there for sure.

00;02;21;05 - 00;02;39;15
Mike
For sure. And we had some good jokes off camera before we started today. So we're warmed up and ready to go. Okay, I'll start off some easy ones for anybody that doesn't know anxious, preoccupied, attachment style, how does that come about? How would you explain that? And like, how do you think it came about for you specifically in your upbringing?

00;02;39;21 - 00;02;58;24
Amanda
So there was definitely some stuff in the under eight or under four. But the thing that I know for sure that I remember is that at eight years old, I lost my father. He passed away. And in the months leading up to his death, my mother, where he was at in the hospital, was about an hour and a half away from where we live.

00;02;58;27 - 00;03;19;09
Amanda
And I was left with friends and family. I was my siblings are all my older son was like an only child and I was left with friends and family members, some who I knew well, some who I didn't know that well while she was over there with him in the hospital. And then after he passed away, she was I make that probably an anxious, preoccupied herself.

00;03;19;09 - 00;03;40;06
Amanda
And she did a lot of going out and dancing and dating. And I got left with with whoever. So there was a period of time there and that I'm sure right after his death, that probably had a profound effect on me because I was I was trying to grieve and she she wasn't there. So I know for sure that that's that's a big and I had this step dad that was very in and out all the time.

00;03;40;06 - 00;03;50;05
Amanda
So, so lots of just what I would call emotional neglect. They always made sure that I had food and water and things, but but they often weren't there, especially at the time that I really needed them.

00;03;50;07 - 00;04;07;27
Mike
Right, Right. Okay. Thanks for sharing. So it was a lot of that sort of intermittent soothing, like there was times where you were soothed and and taken care of and then other times not and were probably really scared. But with APS, I guess they didn't have enough time of being alone where they developed their own sort of soothing strategies.

00;04;07;28 - 00;04;09;14
Mike
That's the idea there. Right?

00;04;09;16 - 00;04;22;14
Amanda
Right. And I had people there who cared about me, but but, but they weren't my primary attachment figure. So I think that that's why and she was there in and out, like you said, with that, that that back and forth with intermittent reinforcement.

00;04;22;16 - 00;04;27;04
Mike
Right. Okay. Thanks for sharing for those insights, Rene, to you in a share.

00;04;27;06 - 00;04;48;29
Rene
Yeah, sure. So, yeah, a little bit for me was that what happened is my real father kind of left when I was around six. So I think that kind of abandonment thing, I didn't know he was leaving and then I never saw him again. So that that played in. And then my mom worked a lot. So I did get left with different family members and people were, you know, caring, caring family members that loved me.

00;04;48;29 - 00;04;53;25
Rene
But same thing, like it wasn't my primary attachment person. So I think that's how that developed.

00;04;53;28 - 00;05;08;13
Mike
Right. Okay. All right. Thank you for sharing. So I want to know next, what sort of led you to your own healing? Like, was there sort of a catalyst or like a rock bottom or a moment where you're like, I got to do something about this? Like right now.

00;05;08;16 - 00;05;23;13
Rene
When I read that question, it just made me laugh because I felt like I always needed the help and was always trying to heal, but just didn't have the tools, like didn't know how to do it like it was. It's so uncomfortable being in a pit, especially if you're like a severe AP because all of your regulation is coming from outside of yourself.

00;05;23;13 - 00;05;42;06
Rene
So you're highly dependent on other people to regulate you. And when they don't, you just are very disregulated and feels like you're in a fight with your partner. You can't go on. The whole world comes crashing down, you can't focus on anything else. So it's very challenging. And I always knew like that that other people are like that in my life.

00;05;42;06 - 00;05;53;28
Rene
And I was like, Why am I this way? But didn't know how to heal it? So yeah, I think I always, always knew I needed to heal it. Yeah. And said enough is enough. If I had tools any time they would have showed up and worked that.

00;05;54;01 - 00;05;56;13
Mike
Was for sure. And Amanda.

00;05;56;15 - 00;06;20;23
Amanda
That that's great. I can relate with what Rene said. I knew something was up, but I wasn't sure exactly what and what to do. I was in a 23 year marriage. I married my high school sweetheart and it was extremely dysfunctional, both of us. I'm not giving him any more credit for the dysfunction than than me. But I guess there was part of me that thought that if I could get away from that dysfunction, I would be okay.

00;06;20;26 - 00;06;48;22
Amanda
And I got divorced in 2018. And so then I wasn't okay. You know, I was I was very lonely, which speaks about good. But then I'm settling for situation ships that were outside of my values system and like, latching on. I'll let this person go. This is ridiculous. And so that that not being able to let go of a relationship that's that's that's hurting me and finally deciding, well, I can't blame my ex anymore because I'm single.

00;06;48;22 - 00;06;59;05
Amanda
What what's the deal? And so I probably came across the and I had been in therapy and help but but not the same as is the tools and needs.

00;06;59;07 - 00;07;15;17
Mike
Right. Right. Okay. So there's a lot of things that are tough about anxious, preoccupied attachment style. You know, I've talked to a lot of reps and they think, we have it the worse. It's a pretty, pretty rough attachment style to have. But what would you say is sort of the toughest thing when you were at your most unhealed?

00;07;15;17 - 00;07;20;06
Mike
What was sort of the toughest part of being? AP Rene, do you want to go first?

00;07;20;12 - 00;07;40;00
Rene
Again, not being able to self-soothe, I think it's the toughest part that's so hard. Like, yeah, just feeling so disregulated and off when the person doesn't reassure you and show up. It's kind of like a powerless feeling because they're so dependent on the other. And so it's very challenging and it's not fun to feel like that. It's not fun to feel disregulated.

00;07;40;00 - 00;07;52;05
Rene
It's not like I said, like if I was in a fight with my partner, be really hard for me to show up to anything like to to be able to work, to be able to function is to be very, very difficult for me. So I think that is definitely the hardest part.

00;07;52;07 - 00;08;13;09
Mike
Yeah, it sounds to us all hazard a terrible analogy here, but is it is it the equivalent of like the your partner is on a boat and they have the donut thing that they could throw in the water to you to save you, like they're the one only responsible and you're stuck in the water just almost like barely hanging on and sort of they're the only one who's has your life in their hands to save you and make you feel better.

00;08;13;09 - 00;08;15;03
Mike
Is it sort of sort of like that?

00;08;15;05 - 00;08;22;24
Rene
That Yeah, that sounds very dramatic, but yeah, pretty true. Especially the more unhealed you are, the worse it is, you know?

00;08;22;26 - 00;08;36;09
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. I imagine though like having the other person being the key to feeling better and not knowing how to do it yourself. That sounds very like scary for sure. So. Yeah. Wow. And Amanda, what was sort of the toughest for you?

00;08;36;12 - 00;09;02;03
Amanda
So even though I'm a lot more healed now, what the toughest has been for me, doing all the work and becoming a lot more secure finally, and my single skin being being secure and happy and meeting my own needs back in. So let's say summer 22 and then getting into a relationship for ten months and learning to let another person meet my needs to be vulnerable with them and oops, it not working out and having to go back then.

00;09;02;03 - 00;09;20;15
Amanda
It's that too. For me, even though I'm much more healed now, is that vacillation between doing it on my own and letting someone else in. crap, now I've got to learn how to do it myself again. So that's been my breakup was it was an August. And so that's been a challenge. And, you know, it's normal to grieve the loss of a relationship.

00;09;20;15 - 00;09;31;03
Amanda
But just getting back to that and then being like, Do I want to do this again? Yes, but but but remembering that sometimes I have to do it all on my own and sometimes I have a partner to help. So.

00;09;31;05 - 00;09;41;07
Mike
Right. Okay. Thank you for sharing. Next, I want to know what were some of the car wounds that were like the strongest or like the hardest core wound that you found was the hardest to reprogram?

00;09;41;13 - 00;10;03;17
Rene
Yeah, I definitely think the abandonment one was really hard to reprogram initially. Like the first. Yeah, working on that and I can remember like it just brought to mind like I was in an eight year relationship and I could remember like wanting so badly to be with this person. And then finally, when we came together and started that relationship, then all I could do was worry about losing it.

00;10;03;23 - 00;10;12;14
Rene
Like I was so worried that he would leave after we got together. So it's like the that pain is so strong and so there when you're in AP.

00;10;12;16 - 00;10;14;03
Mike
Sure. Okay.

00;10;14;06 - 00;10;34;12
Amanda
And Amanda Yeah, definitely alone. I can remember sitting in a webinar and just like this and Tyce would talk about the wounds and I would probably curse too, because I did that and I was like, This is not a wound. I am alone, you know, My mother was gone and had passed away. My father had passed away and my siblings were not available to me.

00;10;34;14 - 00;10;51;20
Amanda
I didn't have a partner. My marriage had had ended and I only had my kids half the time. I'm like, this, this. No, no, this isn't a limb. But even even so, I did the work. I was committed to giving it a go. And now all of those things are so much less painful because there's not a gaping wound there.

00;10;51;20 - 00;11;00;12
Amanda
Yeah, it still hurts that those people are gone, but I'm able to doing that reprograming work. I'm able to see all the people who are there for me and who love me and I'm connected to.

00;11;00;17 - 00;11;26;15
Mike
Yeah, I know sometimes when you start doing the work on Reprograming or Wound, you just don't believe it. Like, you know, the decor ruins of I am defective. Well, you have to work with the opposite of that. But it's like, Well, no, I really think I'm defective. So it's really hard at first. But I guess the more you do it and the more sort of evidence that you provide through time and repetition, you're going to start to sort of loosen that and then make some real, real gains with that core wound.

00;11;26;17 - 00;11;42;22
Mike
But thank you for sharing that. So we're going to get to some member questions now. These are members questions that were submitted by the community. So we will start with why do apps need so much reassurance? Why do you need so much reassurance, Rene?

00;11;42;25 - 00;12;01;00
Rene
Because we're afraid you're going to leave. Yeah. So, yeah, we and one of the thing is we do really well. Like if we get the reassurance on a little regular basis, like if you just give the app that it goes a long way to just like, I still care about you, even if I'm doing something away from you.

00;12;01;00 - 00;12;06;23
Rene
Like, I still really care about the relationship. We just need like little reassurances along the way and I think it helps so much.

00;12;06;25 - 00;12;18;13
Mike
Is there an ideal amount, let's say someone avoidant who's listening right now and they're like, my gosh, are we talking like I have to message or six times a day and let her know? Or like, what? What do you think is a good amount that would sort of satisfy you?

00;12;18;16 - 00;12;34;15
Rene
Well, I'll talk for myself. Like for me, the things that would make me feel really assured is like like I was talking about that boyfriend that I dated. Like once we got together, I was always ready to lose him. I would be like he would be around a lot of attractive girls for his work and they would always be like all these other people around him.

00;12;34;17 - 00;12;50;25
Rene
And a lot of females. And sometimes when he would go to do these kind of jobs, like a little reassurance when he was going to do those things would have been when I needed it, like I didn't need it like every day or something like that. But when he was in these certain situations, I would do really well if he gave me reassurance.

00;12;50;25 - 00;12;55;08
Rene
And he did do that. He was he was pretty good about that, especially like earlier on in the relationship.

00;12;55;12 - 00;12;59;28
Mike
That sounds like a tough situation for anyone seeing their partner around all these attractive memories.

00;12;59;28 - 00;13;00;15
Rene
I know.

00;13;00;15 - 00;13;01;17
Mike
That sucks.

00;13;01;20 - 00;13;17;14
Rene
I know what I always ended up dating people that were in that situation and like either in a band or around lots of women. And so that would really it would really creep up if I was my partner, happened to be someone that was around lots of attractive women. So it's it that much more people.

00;13;17;16 - 00;13;18;28
Mike
Sure.

00;13;19;01 - 00;13;19;16
Amanda
Yeah.

00;13;19;18 - 00;13;24;16
Mike
And Amanda reassurance how much do you need. How much is sort of idea what do you think.

00;13;24;23 - 00;13;40;11
Amanda
That's a great really have a great a great answer And again like the way I think of it is the more you give a give it, the less I need it. Right? So over time, if you can be have a little bit of attunement. her abandonment wins this. This is going to trigger her. Or I'm going, Hey, I miss you.

00;13;40;11 - 00;13;51;12
Amanda
I can't wait to see you again. It doesn't need to be over the top. Really. It just just a little hair in there, generally like salts to sprinkle it on and will be great to know that.

00;13;51;15 - 00;13;58;00
Mike
Our next question is, are all apps codependent and enmeshed? We think about that.

00;13;58;03 - 00;14;19;20
Rene
A good question. I was definitely I definitely think that yeah, there's a codependent part in the apps. I think maybe they may or may not be enmeshed depending, I think. But for me, I definitely had that codependent piece and that was a great course that helped me so much when I took that. The codependency course to realize my thought process and what was codependent and what wasn't.

00;14;19;23 - 00;14;32;05
Rene
So but yeah, yeah, because we're we're depending too much on the other person to regulate us and to provide all these things that we need to start giving to ourselves. So yeah, I think we have to do that work.

00;14;32;08 - 00;14;35;18
Mike
Perfect. And Amanda codependency enmeshment.

00;14;35;20 - 00;14;56;03
Amanda
Yeah, I know. I was I can't speak for all AI apps, but I'm sure that there's probably definitely a tendency their ties would be able to answer that one for sure. But because yeah we, we want so badly for that other person to be okay. If you're not, then I'm not either. And so it makes sense because if you're not okay, you might leave me.

00;14;56;03 - 00;15;03;13
Amanda
Right? So always, always wanting to make sure that that everything is as cool as is definitely one of our traits.

00;15;03;16 - 00;15;28;25
Mike
Okay. Interesting. I don't think I wanted to question too was like the fear of loss. That's also quite an app thing, right? Like, is there a fear that apps can sometimes worry about their partner passing away or maybe loved ones that aren't even sick or whatever, but just being really worried something bad might happen to them? Is is this like a common thing where you worry, even if nothing's really wrong, like worrying that something bad could happen to your loved ones?

00;15;28;27 - 00;15;48;29
Rene
I definitely do. I don't program you. I was like, But I also had a family. My family upbringing was kind of like that. They were worriers. They would worry about a lot of different things. Yeah, I got that a lot growing up. Like I thought you were dead in a ditch, you know, if you don't check in straight, probably from another app, probably mother or grandmother.

00;15;49;01 - 00;15;55;08
Mike
And I know you have an Italian background and so I my Italian side of the family is like the biggest worriers of all time.

00;15;55;11 - 00;15;55;29
Rene
my gosh.

00;15;56;01 - 00;15;59;06
Mike
So maybe it's not an AP thing. It's an Italian thing.

00;15;59;08 - 00;16;00;19
Rene
It could be the Italian part of me.

00;16;00;19 - 00;16;01;00
Amanda
Yes.

00;16;01;08 - 00;16;04;20
Mike
Amanda, did you feel you ever had that sort of fear of a loss of a loved one?

00;16;04;21 - 00;16;10;21
Amanda
I think so. Not off the top of my head. Not that I can think of. So maybe it is. Yeah.

00;16;10;24 - 00;16;28;05
Mike
I'm like, okay, so next question from the community. How much to share? So when you're dating someone, how little to share? When dating, this person says I'm happy, I obviously overshare. So like what sort of a good rule? Like how much or how little do you think you should share when you're dating someone?

00;16;28;08 - 00;16;47;29
Amanda
I'll go first on this one because in my more unhealed state, I wanted to let all of my skeletons out of the closet. I think part of it is, is knowing what the motivation is. If you're going to reject me, let's get it done quickly. Here's all of that. All of my bad, my bad stuff, just so you know, let's get it out there.

00;16;48;01 - 00;17;05;17
Amanda
And my therapist really helped me with that one. You know, I mean, that's old stuff. You don't need to let everybody like, like with my in my most recent relationship, I told him how much student loan debt I had before. I told him how much money I had to make made to pay it back. If that makes it so, I'm going to share the bad news first.

00;17;05;20 - 00;17;31;10
Amanda
But I think it's just about sharing slowly over time and protecting my heart. Do I even know this person? And I'm telling them all of these bad facts about myself, right? So just doing it like that slow vetting process that that I'm trying to get back into with dating and the dating webinars really great about asking like asking one question per day and sharing one thing about yourself per day.

00;17;31;17 - 00;17;44;20
Amanda
They say, Tell me about yourself. Don't say, well, my divorce, blah, blah, blah. Now it can be, it can be slowly. It's not about how much or how little. It's about how long it takes to do it, if that makes any sense.

00;17;44;20 - 00;18;03;01
Mike
Yeah, totally. Totally. It's almost like the other person should have to earn a bit of your vulnerability. Like you're not just going to give it all of them at once, because as we know in our learning's, like being vulnerable and open is a good thing. You want to be that way in your relationships. But when you're dating for sure, you want to sort of drip it out little by little.

00;18;03;04 - 00;18;09;04
Mike
There's no need to sort of tell everybody everything all at once, and I'm sure they will want to do the same. So that's great.

00;18;09;04 - 00;18;23;21
Amanda
Amanda Rooney Yeah, go ahead. And I thought, well, I'm just being honest and then true, but it's not dishonest to just look, it's about it's about privacy. And like you said, letting them earn the right to know all the dirty details.

00;18;23;24 - 00;18;30;12
Mike
Yeah, for sure. The dirty details. Renee, what do you say? How much is too much or too little?

00;18;30;15 - 00;18;51;23
Rene
Yeah, it's interesting. I was thinking about this as you both were talking, and I realized for me, a lot of me oversharing was because I was very emotionally disregulated. So if there was an uncomfortable silence, I would just fill it up and just like, tell them all the things I didn't need to know so soon. But now that I'm in kind of a more regulated space, I don't do that so much.

00;18;51;23 - 00;18;58;07
Rene
Like there's more thought into what I'm saying. I'm not just like, blah, just giving everything for sure.

00;18;58;07 - 00;19;10;17
Mike
For sure. That makes sense. Thanks for sharing. So, okay, next number Question What's the best way to encourage your app partner to speak up for their needs and get out of people pleasing mode?

00;19;10;23 - 00;19;35;16
Amanda
I've got something there because my most recent relationship he he struggled with sharing his needs. And so I realized and you can kind of do a brain, you know, a reframe for the app Hey, I need you to share your needs. Right? It's important. You're going to make me happier if you can do that. You know, making sure that they know that it's important to the relationship.

00;19;35;16 - 00;20;02;01
Amanda
Right? So if the app thinks that that something they're doing is going to endanger the relationship, then just encouraging them hate, not sharing your needs is what's going to endanger the relationship. And and that's that's a really great way it at least I tried that with with my most recent partner I wasn't successful but I think that just reminding that person that that if that the health of the relationship depends on it and that's really important to us anxious to.

00;20;02;01 - 00;20;13;29
Mike
Share that if yeah if they're already scared about asking for their needs, if you're reassuring them like, hey, this is a good thing and I actually want you to, but that sounds like it should have got a result for sure. Renee, what would you say?

00;20;14;01 - 00;20;36;03
Rene
Yeah, I love that. I think Amanda hit it right on because apps care so much about their relationship. If you tell them it's going to help the relationship, they're going to want to do it in this note, making them feel safe to do it, too. And also for me, especially looking back when I was very unhealed, if my needs didn't get met, they would be expressed in a not so nice sort of passive aggressive way, the way you're not supposed to communicate.

00;20;36;03 - 00;20;54;07
Rene
You never do X, Y, z is how it would come out rather than I would love it if we could do X, y, z together. So if you don't build that resentment when your needs are getting met. So if you can ask for them in that positive, healthy way and you know it's going to help the relationship and AP is going to be much more willing to do all that.

00;20;54;10 - 00;21;12;10
Mike
Right, right, right. In some of those ways that are negative, let's say not getting attention, will in AP maybe try to make them jealous or like do something and be like, hey, so-and-so at work today was ask for my phone number. Like, is there any of that kind of stuff trying to do things to make them jealous, to get the attention back on them?

00;21;12;12 - 00;21;14;18
Rene
Mike, you're going to make us smaller.

00;21;14;20 - 00;21;16;17
Amanda
Never horrible. So you don't.

00;21;16;17 - 00;21;18;11
Mike
Have to go there, you know?

00;21;18;14 - 00;21;21;12
Rene
Yes, it's definitely an app. I definitely have.

00;21;21;14 - 00;21;21;19
Amanda
That.

00;21;21;19 - 00;21;38;25
Rene
Strategy and it's I don't like to admit it because it's so terrible and stuff. It's asking for what I need or if I feel threatened by someone. But yeah, that's something I definitely have not done in a long time. But when I was more in, he'll definitely was a go to. Yeah, for sure. But what else is interested if you're not willing to?

00;21;38;28 - 00;21;56;02
Mike
And like you said, it's a strategy like it's something you just don't know at the time. What is a better way to get your needs met. But then once you do the work and due to learning communication and understanding, ask if your needs is totally valid, then it becomes easier. But if you don't know, you're just desperate and you're like, I got to make something work, you know?

00;21;56;05 - 00;22;09;13
Rene
So yeah, it's never what you want as an app. You really want that attention from your partner, you don't want it from anyone else. But that's just a just a strategy that can be used a lot. And again, I know it's it can be so hurtful for the person on the receiving end.

00;22;09;15 - 00;22;32;11
Mike
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. This question was actually my question. I came up with this question. What is the final straw for an app? When does an app finally walk away? So as we know, apps kind of tend to stay a little longer than they should. I, I mean, I think you touched on that earlier on. What is there something where an app is fine, like in like, I can't do this anymore?

00;22;32;14 - 00;23;04;19
Amanda
I guess it varies from from person to person. I think the stronger your app, this is the you know, the worse it has to get. That's such a individual question. Yeah. you burn my house down. I still love him, but I still love him. You know, there's no one size fits all, and that's what's beautiful. But I'll I'll speak to this since the healing, you know, since the healing began, I had I instigated a breakup.

00;23;04;21 - 00;23;27;01
Amanda
You know, that was a real a real milestone for me. And when was that? January of 22, I think I was in a three month relationship and it was not good. And I asked I asked in the webinar, tell me how to break up with somebody else. And I did it. And, you know, it was such a beautiful healing moment for me to be like, I can walk away from our relationship.

00;23;27;03 - 00;23;42;09
Amanda
And like I said, my first relationship, my marriage was 23 years and it was awful most of those years. So what's the final straw? That's just such a individual personalized question because it, it, it just depends on, I guess, how deep the wound begins.

00;23;42;11 - 00;23;44;27
Mike
Right, Right. Renee, any thoughts on that?

00;23;45;00 - 00;24;04;14
Rene
I definitely did breakup with people. Yeah. I definitely stayed too long when it was someone I really cared about. But there would be there is plenty of people that I broke up with, and I think that it was a big one would be if they cheated, like that would be like and that would be non-negotiable. Well, for me, like then my worst nightmare came to fruition and I was done.

00;24;04;16 - 00;24;23;10
Rene
So if they cheated, definitely that would be it. And yeah, and the other thing for me that would hurt me really deeply, especially because I dated a lot of, I think, divas or a phase that Linda that became very deep with me when I was really happy is if they would feel annoyed with me a lot or act annoyed with me a lot, that was a deep wound for me.

00;24;23;10 - 00;24;35;01
Rene
And that would really be painful. Like if I felt like a friend or felt like I was annoying someone and I didn't like to deal with that for too long. So and I didn't have really good ways of expressing it when I was more in heels, but that didn't work well for me.

00;24;35;05 - 00;24;49;29
Mike
So I want to go on a more positive note. Not that any of this is negative. What are some of the app's superpowers or what are some positive things that we can point to that apps have as traits? Or what can people learn from apps?

00;24;50;02 - 00;25;13;10
Rene
Well, we definitely can be very warm and friendly and we definitely see I know for me, I definitely would see the best in people. I would have a hard time finding flaws and like, so we're thinking the best of you. And I remember telling one of my dear boyfriend before we broke up. Like, the problem is I always see the best in you and you always see the worst in me because he felt flaw finding and I felt like he would look at me in this negative light.

00;25;13;10 - 00;25;29;22
Rene
And I always looked at him so positive. And my friends would be like, Aren't you mad at him? He's like, doing this, this and this, and that's not cool and blah, blah, blah. And like, so it's a superpower. But we also have to watch it. We have to kind of equilibrate and see the person's negative traits too, because we tend to look more at people on the positive side.

00;25;29;28 - 00;25;30;29
Mike
Right, Right.

00;25;31;01 - 00;25;41;11
Rene
I like that about I like that I see the positive in people. I just have to remind myself sometimes if they have some negative qualities, let's balance it out, especially if it's a romantic partner and see if they're fit for, you.

00;25;41;13 - 00;25;58;27
Mike
Know, super sweet. And then like obviously avoidant types who maybe their parents didn't give them a lot of like warmth and emotional connection and compliments or whatever. Then AP comes by and says, you're awesome, or I love the way you do this or whatever. You hear all these compliments and it's just like, my gosh, this feels so good.

00;25;58;29 - 00;26;18;11
Mike
We obviously know how that turns out. It sort of becomes a little one, a little one way, one way street action. But it is really sweet that you do that. And I have seen I've noticed that you do that as well, Renee, like not as a bad thing, but you definitely see people like the good in people and it's really hard for you to find something that you think is like not good about someone.

00;26;18;14 - 00;26;22;29
Mike
I think that's that's pretty awesome. Amanda What would you say that is?

00;26;22;29 - 00;26;44;25
Amanda
That's a great answer. And yeah, well, while you're finding me, I'm just having all these googly eyes. I'm so excited about you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My my last relationship, I was told I feel so safe with you. I feel so supported by you. I encourage you. I believe in you. And. And I. I'm not sure if this is an AP thing or an Amanda Harris thing.

00;26;44;25 - 00;27;05;22
Amanda
I could go mean meal chair in the kitchen. Yes. I love to cook for my family, my kids and my boyfriend. But yeah, we're we're very giving. We're very I think across the board and but you know, yeah, we do need to be sure to ring in it in and make sure that we're receiving as well. I had a firm rule if I cook dinner, he's going to do the dishes.

00;27;05;24 - 00;27;09;01
Amanda
So anyway, I.

00;27;09;01 - 00;27;31;13
Mike
Think a lot of couples have that rule. I think I think it's a good rule. Okay, So I just wanted to dive in a little more into your both of your sort of personal healing, just to get a sense of some of the ways that you found success in healing anxious, preoccupied attachment style. So what would you say were some of the most impactful tools, habits or like mindset that helped you heal from anxious?

00;27;31;13 - 00;27;32;21
Mike
Preoccupied?

00;27;32;24 - 00;27;54;09
Rene
Yeah, for me, definitely emotional regulation. I needed it so badly. And so that's why it's like a passion for me to teach because it made a huge difference. But that combined with doing the needs course, of course the core wounds work and everything too. But my biggest, biggest shift was when I took the needs cause I felt so just comfortable in my own skin.

00;27;54;09 - 00;28;14;01
Rene
For the first time ever, I could self-soothe myself. I felt so empowered and so good, and it was just amazing. It was like so great. So I highly recommend the needs course for any app use. And once I met my needs, I felt really solid and I still feel really solid ever since taking that. So that that's what worked for me the best.

00;28;14;04 - 00;28;16;05
Mike
I love that. And Amanda So.

00;28;16;10 - 00;28;33;19
Amanda
I'm going to talk about needs, but I'm elaborate on on wins too. I remember sitting in a webinar and you said if you had a partner right now, what would you want them to do for you? And I thought, Well, I would want him to take me on a beach vacation. And then she says, Do it for yourself.

00;28;33;22 - 00;29;00;08
Amanda
And I said, That's stupid. I'm not doing it. No way, no how. Right? But it was probably February, March scheduled a Puerto Rican vacation for June. And in the meantime, I was I was doing the Corwin Reprograming. And the way I view it and the way I teach my clients to do it is I make have them make a video recording of themselves talking to themselves and singer loved and connected by this person and remember this story.

00;29;00;10 - 00;29;22;01
Amanda
And I was watching those and you matter and watching those videos every morning and and so don't get me wrong, as it got closer and closer to that Puerto Rican vacation, I got pretty squirrely. I'm like, my God, I can't do this. Every time I go to schedules, like all the videos or couples holding hands on the beach and and all those things for the beautiful beach vacation.

00;29;22;03 - 00;29;36;11
Amanda
But like I went on the video, lots of people on videos have heard the story about. I went on that vacation and I walked around the island like home, the place, and I was a confident, independent single woman. And I never, never could have done that without media.

00;29;36;14 - 00;29;59;21
Mike
Wow, I love that circle. I'm so happy you did that for yourself. Two PDFs for the Wind. Okay, So I wanted to know what sort of been the best thing you've experienced since doing all this work on healing? How are things different in the relationship with others? The relationship to yourself? What are some of like big changes that are just really awesome since you've done this work?

00;29;59;22 - 00;30;21;23
Rene
For me, Definitely just feeling solid in myself and not feeling like not feeling like I need any relationship in particular, feeling so comfortable being by myself. I was never even close to feeling okay by myself. I always had a boyfriend since I was five years old. Up until the past few years, always, always had a boyfriend. And so now I'm so comfortable by myself.

00;30;21;23 - 00;30;40;15
Rene
It feels so good. And I look forward to dating and doing all of those things. But it's not from a place of need anymore. It's. It's just from a place where it's kind of more like icing on the cake instead of the whole cake. So it feels so good to have that. And same thing with friends like I used to when something happened.

00;30;40;15 - 00;30;59;23
Rene
I was telling someone this recently, like when something happened to me that caused any kind of reaction. I would be dialing a phone before I even felt it fully. Like I always I always would have like a friend or a boyfriend or someone like someone was helping me process it. And now it's like when anything happens and I'm feeling the emotions, I know how to process them.

00;30;59;23 - 00;31;22;05
Rene
I sit with them for a moment, so it's I guess the biggest shift is like I'm not ever emotionally dumping anymore. Like I'm always processing everything myself. So and I think before I just emotionally dumped and a lot of my friends were codependent, so they loved it. I remember when I started healing my friend, something happened, something big in my life, and I just sat with it and I was like, okay, I just I know I can handle anything.

00;31;22;07 - 00;31;39;21
Rene
That's how I feel. And then I didn't call him right away. And he was like, That happened to you 15 minutes ago and you didn't let me know. But I just realized like, wow, I never really saw things myself. And so that was that's a really good shift.

00;31;39;24 - 00;31;52;22
Mike
That's so lovely. And as a partner, I want to ask you and then we'll get to Amanda. You said your friend noticed. Would you say a lot of people around you, you notice like friends, family, like where people commenting on like Rene, Like there's something different about. Yeah.

00;31;52;25 - 00;32;08;26
Rene
Yeah. A couple people got a little bit upset that I wasn't calling them as much, but it was, it was just I just felt so comfortable being alone. I really cherished my alone time. Yeah. So I have a couple friends that were like, you know, recall anymore and this and that. So I had to I had to just let them know It's done a lot of healing work.

00;32;08;26 - 00;32;30;06
Rene
I'm just really enjoying time by myself. I've never been comfortable spending time by myself. And also the other thing is I had ADHD, and once I did the needs cause that was helped my ADHD the most, I actually could focus better, read better. So I was just like doing all these things that were so enjoyable studying, reading during personal growth.

00;32;30;08 - 00;32;47;23
Rene
So yeah, I did take a huge step back from social connection. It became so much lower down on my needs list and then it didn't. It didn't pop, pop, pop back up like a year later, but it was almost like a good, solid year where I was just wanted to be by myself. Like, This is great. I love reading, learning, being alone.

00;32;47;26 - 00;33;02;01
Mike
Yeah. I'm just like, Yeah, like you're starting the relationship with yourself for the first time and just being really excited about it. Yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful. Thanks for sharing. Amanda Or some of the positives about healing your attachment style.

00;33;02;03 - 00;33;22;04
Amanda
So definitely feeling less triggered. I'm like, Well, that would have really upset me before and I'm kind of not the different things. You have to be careful with that. I do remember asking use this in a webinar one time because sometimes it's easy to not set boundaries because I'm less triggered, right? So I had to I had to kind of learn how to integrate that.

00;33;22;04 - 00;33;46;24
Amanda
Just because I'm less trigger doesn't mean that that's cool, right? But that one thing along those same lines is that the Puerto Rico trip just learning to because I am a big social person and fun and recreation or had big needs for me. So with Saturday and I want to go listen to some music, I get in my car and I go and sit at the bar on my own and order some wings and beer and listen to music.

00;33;47;01 - 00;34;09;06
Amanda
I don't have to rely on having someone go with me or or just over Christmas, I went on my first cruise on my own and people will say by yourself. And I said, No. There were 3000 other people who had, What are you talking about? So this morning, Yeah, but learning that I don't have to put my life on hold, waiting for a partner.

00;34;09;06 - 00;34;33;29
Amanda
Right. I'm going to go on trips and I'm going to go to the movies and I'm going to do whatever it is I need to do, whether the cooking sits. I love doing that for a partner so much. It's been hard for me to learn how to do that for myself. But this meal just as much as the other people in my life do, so learn learning that I have a full happy life with or without a partner I think has been the biggest thing.

00;34;34;02 - 00;34;41;22
Mike
I love that. That's amazing. And yeah, is the part too. Would you say if people really noticed a shift in you family accounts?

00;34;41;26 - 00;35;01;18
Amanda
No, no, nobody. Nobody's here Now if they get they didn't say I my my relationship with my kids improved a lot. They're teenagers. So whether or not they said anything, they felt it, you know, and so whenever a girl would get mad and snap at me and and instead of me getting upset and escalating, you know, I'm able to call me say, hey, that's not cool.

00;35;01;20 - 00;35;14;13
Amanda
And then then later on she'll say, well, I'm sorry, I yell rather than me the me getting upset and triggered. And then she's upset and triggered. So I mean she didn't they didn't necessarily say anything, but I know that they felt it.

00;35;14;16 - 00;35;32;28
Mike
Right. Right. Okay. So we're coming towards the end of the episode. Just a couple more question, guys, and thank you so much for being here again. So speaking on behalf of all the APS, what would you want people to know about anxious, preoccupied that people might have misunderstood them?

00;35;33;00 - 00;35;51;14
Rene
That's such a good one too. There is one time that I can remember. I think it was someone that had an essay attachment, but a lot of times this person had said in particular like they were very upset with an app and they were saying something about like, Well, I know everything they did was fake because they were just people pleasing.

00;35;51;16 - 00;36;10;08
Rene
And I just kind of want to say something about that. And it's not that when you're people pleasing, you're doing anything fake, like apps really, genuinely, we really care about our partners. We really want to do nice things for them. And yes, of course we want to be loved and reassured, but it's not the sole reason we're doing all of these things.

00;36;10;08 - 00;36;31;03
Rene
It is also because we care and it doesn't mean that it's fake because there are some people pleasing involved. That's one thing that I've heard that kind of kind of hurt. I was just like, man, yeah, we do. People, please. But it doesn't mean it's all fake. Like it's not. Yeah, it's there's some genuine ness to it and we do genuinely care and we do want to show that care to our partner.

00;36;31;06 - 00;36;33;12
Mike
Okay, lovely. And Amanda.

00;36;33;14 - 00;36;35;24
Amanda
What. What do I want people to know about?

00;36;35;26 - 00;36;43;27
Mike
Yeah. If anybody who's not happy and kind of is confused by app, it might have a negative light. Is there anything you want to shed?

00;36;44;00 - 00;37;04;28
Amanda
Yeah, just like with all the attachment styles, we came by naturally. You know, my father didn't abandon me on purpose when he died, but I was abandoned. So that that is in there in my guts and in my bones, in my subconscious. And we're not doing it to punish you. We're doing it because I'm afraid if you leave me, I might die.

00;37;04;28 - 00;37;26;15
Amanda
You know, Tice talks about that. That's the thing. Whenever you're a baby or small person, that's that one of the fears that if you're abandoned, you'll die. So I'm not I'm not just trying to be whiny or needy or or clingy. I'm punish you. And even though I've gotten gotten way better because people would would kind of criticize me.

00;37;26;15 - 00;37;43;26
Amanda
Well, if you're married yourself and wanted to leave it, well, because I'm I would say I wasn't scared of being alone. I just went to the grocery store by myself. What are you talking about? But but, you know, at the end of the day, I was scared of being and and since since my breakup, my two girls, I have twin daughters.

00;37;43;26 - 00;38;15;02
Amanda
They they moved out of the house and went to the dorm. So this is the first time that I've ever lived on. Like whenever I went through my divorce, I had never lived by myself. I was in that relationship since I was 16. So that that being alone is that fear of abandonment is very real. And just to try to to have some patience with it and and that we come by it naturally, just like that, just like the days and just like that phase, we all it's all coming from a place of of legit woundedness.

00;38;15;04 - 00;38;36;17
Mike
On our percent. Very well said. Thank you, Amanda. And lastly, for anyone ape anxious, preoccupied, who's listening, who's struggling, maybe hasn't gone to therapy or hasn't done any healing work or whatever, and they're just really unsure of like what to do. What sort of words of advice or encouragement would you give them.

00;38;36;19 - 00;38;55;21
Rene
Yeah, definitely. No, you can heal, you can get better, you can feel comfortable in your own skin and less needy and that's so great when that leaves you. And I think the personal development school does a great job of bundling the courses for the AP and they're so great right now. It's like and needs is like I think the second course of like Handbook for a Better Life.

00;38;55;23 - 00;39;13;20
Rene
And then you look at the needs and as you work on the core wounds, the healing happens and then it just kind of snowballs like, like initially it's so hard to imagine yourself without a partner. So it's hard to focus on doing the work and all of that. But once you start chipping away at the core, when you do the needs cause you're going to be feeling so much better.

00;39;13;27 - 00;39;33;27
Rene
And there's so much support at PDSA because AP is love, the connection and the chatting and you can, you know, talk to other people that have gone through it. And that's what helped me the most, is like coming into PDFs and seeing other apps that did the healing. And actually Amanda was someone that I totally related to in the scripts and like I saw that she, she kept encourage me to keep going.

00;39;33;27 - 00;39;52;15
Rene
So I was like, this isn't working. It's not going to work. Try to soothe myself and to put on fuzzy socks and hug myself like it's not the same as a man, but it's so much better. And you really it's such a level where you can self-soothe and you can feel really good without a partner. It's amazing and it feels great.

00;39;52;15 - 00;39;57;14
Rene
So stick hang in there apps. You can do it and you will feel great.

00;39;57;17 - 00;40;01;19
Amanda
They wrap up in a blanket.

00;40;01;22 - 00;40;03;29
Mike
Amanda Anywhere is an inspiration.

00;40;04;00 - 00;40;37;16
Amanda
My my words of inspiration. It's more like a demand. Do not skip auto suggestion. I cannot the the I was always surprised and amazed that that the people in in the after almost that after party that after the webinars that that were finding the opposing evidence and in the morning or in the night whenever whenever I was working on my I'm alone I did it in morning and that because it was so deep and she recently said or somebody told me that they recently heard her say, because I think that I was left at the hospital too, whenever I was a baby.

00;40;37;16 - 00;41;06;29
Amanda
And my mother said that she visited me, but I'm not sure how much. But I was talking to a client that said that they heard her say on a webinar that oftentimes when it's pre-verbal that we may even need 63 days of audio suggestion to to to get to touch that because it's because it's it's steep. And so finding that opposing evidence and that emotion and the repetition and listening to it or writing it or whatever medium you choose, the auto suggestion is a game changer.

00;41;06;29 - 00;41;17;12
Amanda
So do not do not skip auto suggestion. And I think that's in the handbook for a better life and the emotional mastery right. So that that's it's so so bottle.

00;41;17;15 - 00;41;35;17
Mike
Perfect thank you so much for sharing. Okay so we're at the end now before we leave, Renee and Amanda, I was wonder if you could leave some contact information if anybody wanted to work with you. Obviously, you guys have done a lot of work on yourselves. You've both now taken the integrated attachment theory certification course and are now coaching.

00;41;35;17 - 00;41;44;01
Mike
So we would just love for you to leave your information. And if anybody wants to work with either of you, they can go ahead and do that. Renee, do you want to go first, sir?

00;41;44;01 - 00;42;02;15
Rene
Thank you so much, Mike. Yes, So my website is living your best life 11 weeks site dot com. So living your best life. 11 at worksite dot com is how you could find me. Also by email was Renee at the personal development school economy. You can email me there as well and thank you so much for having us.

00;42;02;15 - 00;42;04;01
Rene
This is really fun.

00;42;04;03 - 00;42;07;07
Mike
good. That's great. Is 11 angel numbers.

00;42;07;10 - 00;42;14;19
Rene
What's that? Yeah, Yeah. It's like, you know. Yeah. Kind of like an angel number opening of something new coming in for you.

00;42;14;21 - 00;42;17;02
Mike
I love it. Beautiful. And Amanda.

00;42;17;04 - 00;42;30;10
Amanda
My email address is Amanda offers coaching at gmail.com and my website is Amanda Harris Coaching dot com and love just to see you guys and talk to you guys. I have I have openings and testimonials there on my website.

00;42;30;13 - 00;42;44;06
Mike
Perfect. Thanks again so much. Think you guys represented anxious preoccupied very very well and hopefully everyone learned a lot and people are inspired to do the work themselves too. So thanks again for being here, Renee and Amanda.

00;42;44;09 - 00;42;44;28
Rene
Thank you.

00;42;45;03 - 00;42;45;15
Amanda
Thank you.

00;42;45;15 - 00;42;50;18
Mike
My dear audience, as always, best of luck on your healing journey and we'll see you next time.