00;00;00;00 - 00;00;12;18
Sabrina
one of my really good friends when she was on the app when we first met in the beginning of last year, she was just like, I hate it and I keep meeting the wrong guy is. And it was all like all rigamarole. And when I we worked together, when I was like, You got to change your mind.

00;00;12;18 - 00;00;30;07
Sabrina
You have to change your major. Once she started doing the work, then when she went out to date, she was like, Wait a minute, I'm in control too. Like, I get to decide if I like that. And I was like, Thank you. That's what we've been talking about for the last year. Then she started to really enjoy it, and then she started to meet people where she was using it like exploratory to like become vulnerable with people being like, Wow, if I never see them again.

00;00;30;12 - 00;00;32;00
Sabrina
And they all wanted to see her again.

00;00;32;00 - 00;00;42;00
Sabrina
And now she met her boyfriend on an app and now they're together and she's been really happy for the last couple of months. And she messaged me and she's like, so like, she sent me a conversation they had and she's like, So is this like, am I doing it right?

00;00;42;00 - 00;00;49;14
Sabrina
Is this communication? And I was like, That's it. And her response back was, Holy shit, this is so much easier with somebody that is actually open and ready for it.

00;00;49;14 - 00;01;42;08
Thais
Hello and welcome to the Personal Development School Podcast. I am so excited you are here. I am your co-host, Titus Gibson, along with our new special host, Mike Vizio. This is a podcast that discusses everything related to integrated attachment theory. The New attachment theory, along with the subconscious mind relationships, communication needs boundaries and so much more. Throughout this podcast, you'll see a series of episodes I upload with new information, educational tips, all about how to thrive in relationships and really master your emotional state in your life, along with special guests hosted by Mike Zito to discuss all of these amazing topics and longer form content. Thank you so much for being here and I really hope you enjoy this episode.

00;01;42;08 - 00;02;20;23
Mike
My guest today is a dynamic figure in the world of entrepreneurship and media. She is the creative mind behind the highly acclaimed podcast Do the Work. In just nine short months, the podcast has soared to the top 0.5%, globally, accumulating over 3 million downloads and earning a remarkable 4.9 star rating on Spotify and Apple. Her influence extends into the digital realm, where she commands a massive following of 750,000 on Tik Tok, along with 406,000 followers on the Do the work Instagram and an additional 118,000 followers on her personal Instagram.

00;02;20;26 - 00;02;47;28
Mike
She has ventured into the realm of love and relationships, leveraging her insights to become a successful dating coach. Her experience is featured in prominent publications such as NBC, California Life, The L.A. Times, the Drew Barrymore Show, The Daily Mail, Newsweek, US, Sun, Yahoo and MSN. She is truly a versatile force guiding individuals to success in fashion, podcasts, and the intricate world of love and relationships.

00;02;48;00 - 00;02;55;09
Mike
Personal development, podcast viewers and listeners. I'd like to welcome Sabrina's O'Hara. Hello, Sabrina. How are you doing today?

00;02;55;12 - 00;02;57;13
Sabrina Zohar
Hey, Mike. I'm doing very well, thank you. How are.

00;02;57;13 - 00;03;00;17
Mike
You? Very good. Thank you for being here.

00;03;00;19 - 00;03;02;05
Sabrina Zohar
So excited.

00;03;02;08 - 00;03;12;29
Mike
Good. Good. Sorry. So I was just wonder if you could spend a few moments for anyone who might not have heard of you before. Just letting an audience briefly know who you are, what you do, and maybe a bit of your backstory.

00;03;13;01 - 00;03;31;15
Sabrina Zohar
Totally. So my name is Sabrina Zohar. I'm a dating coach and I do the podcast and entrepreneur. I have a clothing line called Software. And in a bit of a nutshell, I moved to New York when I was 18 to be an actor. And so I thought I always thought being somebody else was how I was going to like playing a part and pretending to be somebody different was how I was going to be in front of people.

00;03;31;17 - 00;03;47;27
Sabrina Zohar
And I did that for a few years and I just I frankly speaking, I fucking hated it. So I transitioned to fashion, went to school. I actually dropped out of college. I had this amazing job ready for me. I failed my class and I was like, you know what? Go with it, right? Started working in fashion. Realize what a toxic like The Devil Wears Prada is very real.

00;03;47;27 - 00;04;05;09
Sabrina Zohar
Like what an incredibly toxic workspace that is. And in 2016, I made a decision to cut smoking, cap medication, went paleo, start working out, completely changed my life. And then a few months later, my mom went to the doctor with a headache. They found six brain aneurysms that created the top half of her vessel. So she had to go through this whole entire rigmarole.

00;04;05;09 - 00;04;21;25
Sabrina Zohar
Of all of these. She was like a China doll, basically. And in that time is when I, I started to create software. And, you know, for me, like at this point, personal development wasn't even a blip on my screen. Like, I had a really traumatic childhood and I've had a lot of things that I just normalized. So I just thought, I'm fucked up there.

00;04;21;25 - 00;04;40;24
Sabrina Zohar
Something wrong with me? Okay, it's because I don't have a business or I don't have this. This is why I'm not happy. And I ended up like starting my company. Anxiety ran literally ran the business throughout it, pretty much married my father, started this crazy, unhealthy, narcissistic relationship and in 2018 made a decision like to walk away and focus on myself.

00;04;40;24 - 00;05;03;09
Sabrina Zohar
And that's just when everything started to mushroom. I have been dating. I lived in New York for 12 years, L.A. for two, and now San Diego. So I've dated in all the major cities. I understand what's going on, and by doing stuff with software, I then started to do tons of panels and podcasts and organically entrepreneurial trip and anxiety started to feed into dating because it's all very, you know, in the same vein created a clientele.

00;05;03;09 - 00;05;09;04
Sabrina Zohar
And then that's when I started doing the socials and the podcast. And now here we are. It's just kind of mushroomed into me sitting with you.

00;05;09;07 - 00;05;30;03
Mike
Yeah. Wow, that's great. The back story. And we'll dig into that a bit more. So, you know, our school, we're always talking about personal development, growth, people's own journeys and you touched on that, your intro for your own self. Was there like a catalyst or a rock bottom moment where you were like, enough is enough? Like what sort of really pushed you into diving into your own healing where you're like, I need to do this?

00;05;30;03 - 00;05;30;28
Mike
Like right now.

00;05;30;28 - 00;05;59;16
Sabrina Zohar
I think like any real story, there wasn't just one. There was multiple, you know, because like the healing journey, I'm still on it. So like, I'm even thinking about moments that even recent where I'm like, I think the light bulb, though, like something needs to be done. Like the first time I had ever even went to therapy as an adult, Not like in my my earlier years of like, you know, being 18 was when the my now ex, the narcissist that I ended up getting the first time he broke up with me out of nowhere.

00;05;59;16 - 00;06;12;00
Sabrina Zohar
It was the very like I just noticed the shift in his dynamic and I reached out and then he said, you know, it's not you, it's me. I'm just not ready. And that was that moment where I remember throwing my phone on the floor and calling my mom. And I was like, I've got to do something. It can't be that.

00;06;12;00 - 00;06;28;09
Sabrina Zohar
It's always every it can't just be that I haven't met a guy that's right for me. There's got to be something more here. So that was like that first pinnacle of there's got to be something. And I remember starting therapy and like, you know, not not getting what I wanted to hear, not hearing somebody tell me like, exactly, hey, here's your problems, you know?

00;06;28;11 - 00;06;49;18
Sabrina Zohar
And so I took a break. And then after my ex, when I when when my ex and I broke up and that that was done, that was the rock bottom that actually like I would say that was really the propelling moment, but I can't get any lower. So let me at least try to get higher. And that's when I like dived into therapy and to and ketamine treatment and like really investing going into where we are now.

00;06;49;21 - 00;07;00;26
Sabrina Zohar
But yeah, it's, it's, it's funny to think about the journey and I'm sure you can relate. There are so many moments along the way that we realize need to be a catalyst for change. It just depends on how monumental they end up being in that time.

00;07;00;28 - 00;07;14;08
Mike
Yeah, exactly. That's really well said. And I, like you said, you know, with the therapist that somebody is telling you what you need to hear because, you know, when you go to your friends and you say like, my partner is doing this or my ex to this, they're going to be like, of course, like, that's terrible.

00;07;14;08 - 00;07;30;26
Mike
He's toxic. I'm so glad you're not with him and you're not really growing or learning or seeing your blind spots. So going to therapy and getting someone who's going to be brutally honest with you and have you take accountability for your part in the in the role is so helpful. So I'm glad you got to do that.

00;07;30;28 - 00;07;46;21
Sabrina Zohar
We like to teach you how to take accountability, too. You know, I think we're not raised like I was never raised how to set a boundary. I had a narcissistic father and a people pleasing mother. So, like, what was I taught to be a good girl? Shame. Lots of shame in the house. Like if you sleep with a guy, he's never going to respect you.

00;07;46;21 - 00;08;06;03
Sabrina Zohar
And so it's like you're just scared. Everything was coming from fear and fear. So no one had ever taught me, Hey, here's how you take accountability, here's how you apologize or Here's how. So it's like, here's how you communicate. Here is how you do this. So I think just having because it's like I get that all the time when I work with clients, it'll be like my friends all say this and I'm like, Cool, What's the depth of their relationships?

00;08;06;03 - 00;08;19;06
Sabrina Zohar
Let's look at who's giving you the advice to then see, Do you have what they have? Like when my sister gives me advice and I love her and her husband and they have a beautiful life and family, I'm going to take it a lot more than my friend who's been single for eight years because she's running through guys because she's so anxious.

00;08;19;06 - 00;08;23;07
Sabrina Zohar
She can't sit still. But yet she's telling me that this guy is shit.

00;08;23;10 - 00;08;36;09
Mike
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So moving on to your podcast, obviously have this really successful, amazing podcast called Do the Work. What was your inspiration for starting the podcast and what exactly does do the work mean?

00;08;36;16 - 00;08;57;11
Sabrina Zohar
So for me personally, starting a podcast was not something like I enjoyed doing podcasts, but in my life I was like, Who am I? And that was my own limiting belief was the who's going to listen to me? Who cares about me? Like I'm nobody? And that was ingrained by like childhood of never really feeling heard and always just being I'm the youngest of my family and like I've a very volatile, explosive family.

00;08;57;13 - 00;09;12;20
Sabrina Zohar
And so it was always very like your toss to the side. Sabrina I'll shut up. Nobody wants to hear what you say. So scream louder to be heard. So when I saw the podcast, it was really me working through a lot of my own stuff and it was really just people saying, Hey, we'd love to hear more. You know, you have your videos, the short form is 2 minutes.

00;09;12;23 - 00;09;32;11
Sabrina Zohar
Can we dive deeper and I said, Sure. I called a friend. My friend Corey, who has a podcast, was like, How do we do this? And he told me to like, what? To get the mic and everything. And I just started it. And for me, what doing the work actually is, is like finally and finally turning inwards and not just focusing on external.

00;09;32;11 - 00;09;48;16
Sabrina Zohar
Because I think for so often everything is so much about why are they doing this to me? So you could spend decade in therapy figuring out why everyone else is acting, but have we ever stopped to say we? But what's happening in my body? What's coming up for me? Well, am I feeling this or have I ever felt this before?

00;09;48;16 - 00;10;05;02
Sabrina Zohar
What's the narrative that's playing? Can I challenge this thought? So to me, doing the work is actually turning it inwards for once, because I think we all think we do by doing facemasks or bubble baths. But have we ever stopped to sit in our body? Have we ever stopped to think about what our narrative is? Have we ever stopped to think about Have we ever felt this before?

00;10;05;02 - 00;10;19;27
Sabrina Zohar
And is this a pattern? And how am I showing up and what's my thought process like? That, to me is what doing the work is, and I'm super excited to be able to have like created bite sized episodes to give new modalities and new offer opportunities to continue doing the work.

00;10;19;29 - 00;10;31;07
Mike
While at some sort of an adult how you're doing it and it's helping you while you're doing it as well. And I get the same thing out of doing this myself, but that's quite amazing. So how long have you done the podcast for?

00;10;31;09 - 00;10;34;22
Sabrina Zohar
Officially, 11 months now.

00;10;34;24 - 00;10;38;13
Mike
Were you surprised at how it like blew up so very quickly?

00;10;38;14 - 00;10;57;26
Sabrina Zohar
Never in my if you had asked me a year ago, I would have been like, Please, I'm lucky if I get a thousand downloads. Yeah, like, I just because I have I think like my mom always said, you know, my mom always reminds me to stay humble. And I'm like, Mom, even if I wanted to be arrogant, I don't think I could, considering how I was raised, you know, like, I'm always the first person to bring myself down.

00;10;57;26 - 00;11;15;00
Sabrina Zohar
Like, trolls ain't got shit on what I could do itself. Yeah. And I think the struggle with me wasn't that, how am I going to grow it? The struggle with me was, holy shit, how am I going to receive this? Because now I'm receiving it. The good, the bad, the ugly, all of it. The spectrum is quite large, but really the bad I can receive.

00;11;15;00 - 00;11;25;21
Sabrina Zohar
I'm used to that, right? I'm used to attacking myself. But the good is tough for me because then I had to look at myself and say, so people do care about you have to say, okay, so your core belief no longer has validity to it.

00;11;25;23 - 00;11;45;05
Mike
Wow, that's amazing. Such a good story. So I know you talk about attachment theory a lot as we do here at Personal Development school. I know you've done healing work on yourself, but I was curious what was sort of your dominant attachment style most of your life and what were like some of the problems that would show up over and over in relationships.

00;11;45;07 - 00;12;04;15
Sabrina Zohar
So if you go to anxious attachment style in the dictionary, there I would be, I was. And it was the textbook where like I first off, didn't even know what an attachment style was until 2017, until I read attached the first time I'd even heard of what Anxious Tantrum style was. And for me, I would manifest as I don't even know where to start.

00;12;04;15 - 00;12;16;27
Sabrina Zohar
It's like I used my body to connect with people. I always had it where like I need them to choose me and I need to be chosen. And like I had my father, who was in and out of the house all the time, always like super abusive verbally, sometimes physically. So it was always for me, I'm going to be left.

00;12;16;27 - 00;12;35;22
Sabrina Zohar
Someone's always going to leave me. No one's ever going to like me enough there always. So I needed the constant reassurance. If I didn't get a text message back within a minute, I would send 30 more. I was like, sitting in anything was unfathomable. I was so anxious that like it was palpable to other people, to the point where, like even my sister, I remember a shopping and I remember her stopping and she's like, I can't.

00;12;35;24 - 00;12;51;16
Sabrina Zohar
And I was like, What? She's like, Your anxiety. I can't fucking handle it. It's too much. Well, that it was to the point where, like, even just being with me, you could feel that like I wasn't able to be and I was so uncomfortable and I was so scared. I was always scared that I was going to be left and I was always fearful.

00;12;51;16 - 00;13;10;24
Sabrina Zohar
So like, building relationships was never even an opportunity because if I would have one date, I'd be crying 30 minutes after the date because the guy didn't ask me out on a second date already. Like, right. The pinch didn't match the ouch. And I was kind of hyper vigilant, super people pleasing, didn't know how to set boundaries like I was the the cliche of that.

00;13;11;01 - 00;13;25;14
Sabrina Zohar
And I was the person that thought I was crazy. You know, I thought that there's something wrong with me. I thought none of my friends are dealing with this. No one else deals with this until I realize, like, you're not a snowflake. There's a lot of people that are dealing with this. And that's why I think when I talk to people now and they're like, How do you know what I'm thinking?

00;13;25;14 - 00;13;38;21
Sabrina Zohar
It's like because I I've been there like, I know exactly. I know where it is in your body. I know how you feel. I know what's going on in your mind. I know every aspect of it, which is how I'm able to say, Come back to me like I know where you are. So let's bring you back to where we are right?

00;13;38;21 - 00;13;55;07
Mike
Right. Wow. And like such a testament to you doing the work because, you know, I hear sometimes that apps and you're preoccupied sometimes have a hard time in business because they're just so focused on relationships. So, like, they wouldn't want to take a lot of time away spending on a business because they're like, What? What about my partner?

00;13;55;07 - 00;14;07;03
Mike
Like, where is he? Like, I need to spend way more time with him. So it's amazing that you've done all these things and built all these things and not had so much anxiety about it with having a partner at the same time.

00;14;07;10 - 00;14;28;04
Sabrina Zohar
Or maybe I was saying this business software when I started software, I started it with my ex like he was part of it. I remember at meetings being like, I need to get home like that exact that urgency of like, he's home. I'm home. Like, I remember. So, like, even just like smelling something upstairs and being like, he's doing something without me and like, waking up and rushing up to be part of it.

00;14;28;06 - 00;14;52;10
Sabrina Zohar
So, like that codependent hyper fixation, my business. I think the reason that it worked was because my business launched when I was in the relationship. So I was able to focus because I had my partner and I lived together. So I was able to like kind of work on it. And then when we broke up, that's why like for an entire year, like the business kind of fell flat and same like the business did well during COVID because I didn't have a choice like it was.

00;14;52;17 - 00;15;15;18
Sabrina Zohar
It just took off on its own. Yeah, but then, yeah, I fucked up a lot in the business because I was so preoccupied and like, I remember doing inventory with my mom and I had hooked up with this guy like twice. It was not anything crazy. And like, he'd text me and I'll never forget crying like panic attack, packing boxes and screaming because, like, he didn't answer back and I was freaking out and my mom and and being like, spring, we need to get work done.

00;15;15;21 - 00;15;31;05
Sabrina Zohar
So like, boy, boy has that. And it's taken a lot because not only am I working through the anxiety my relationships and working through the anxiety as a business owner, because every day I'm scared it's going to be taken for me and I'm not going to make money. And that same fear comes again just in a different way.

00;15;31;07 - 00;15;39;04
Mike
Right? Wow. I'm sure a lot of people are going to resonate with what you just shared there, but I'm glad to hear it's better now than it was before.

00;15;39;07 - 00;15;40;01
Sabrina Zohar
I'm so much.

00;15;40;01 - 00;15;59;04
Mike
Better. So good to hear. And your big brother Joe is also a dating coach and that must be really helpful to have a sibling that you can kind of run ideas off of and hear the male perspective on dating. So I was just curious like, how is it that both two people in one family became dating coaches and who sort of started the path first?

00;15;59;06 - 00;16;13;21
Sabrina Zohar
So Joe's been doing this for a while and Joe is really doing it. So he had a drug problem and he went to the program like, I don't know if you've seen like all those documentaries now of like those crazy wilderness programs that like these kids have gone through. That's what my brother went through. Like he was in one of those wilderness programs.

00;16;13;21 - 00;16;29;20
Sabrina Zohar
He went to a boarding school. So he's been coaching people for a while in that like just even how to move on from that and how to accept that then naturally manifested into dating. And I've been going to my brother personally for the last ten plus years of being an adult. So like he's always been the one I would totally like.

00;16;29;20 - 00;16;45;25
Sabrina Zohar
I call him Billy Joe. What's going on? He'd be like, You want to fucking know? Like, you want the real answer? He'd give it to me. It might not have been something I wanted to hear, but I think it wasn't until recently where, like when he met my current partner and he looked at me and I remember he was like, Finally, you listen to me and you stop dating the bartenders that with tattoos.

00;16;45;25 - 00;17;03;13
Sabrina Zohar
And he just like patted me on the back and I was like, I listened, you know, I was like, he he he's kind of like me. We're like, it wasn't really dating specifically. He was coaching people kind of in the support of leaving that journey that they were on. Right. And it just naturally progressed into people turning to him for relationships.

00;17;03;15 - 00;17;07;25
Mike
Okay, excellent. Sounds like a great guy. Maybe we'll have him on one day.

00;17;07;27 - 00;17;20;24
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah, he's he's high. You talk about high energy functioning ADHD, like he's got his own shit, but like, he's figured out how to work through it. And, like, his story is he's been through a lot. So I can respect and understand how that can impact people in their life.

00;17;20;27 - 00;17;36;19
Mike
For sure. For sure. So I want to talk about dating, sort of like the state of modern dating today. Do you think things have gotten better and easier since the inception of online dating, or do you think online dating is not great and probably not the best way to be to be dating?

00;17;36;21 - 00;17;55;07
Sabrina Zohar
So I think it's one of those things that like for app for all the good there's bad, right? You know like when technology was created, people were scared, people were losing jobs. But look what it created. It created newness. So I think we have to look at it that way. I look at it as before the apps. We have this whole entire like multiple generations, like I think there was now this new study where they're like, there's less divorces and there ever has been.

00;17;55;07 - 00;18;10;13
Sabrina Zohar
It's like, yeah, because for maybe for the first time, people aren't just rushing into a relationship, you know, like when our parents, our parents generation, like pre, you know, if we think about like the nineties before, like before the thousands, when the cell phones became kind of the norm, people would meet and it'd be like, All right, this guy's nicer.

00;18;10;13 - 00;18;28;12
Sabrina Zohar
Okay, we'll do it. Like I have to get married because my mom said at 23, if I'm not married by then, I'm a fucking loser. I need to get out of the house. So a lot of people was very proximity and timing. Like, Hey, I'm ready, this person's here, I'll take them then online dating came out and it's like, of course, did that bring out a whole slew of like, I don't have to make a quick decision, right?

00;18;28;12 - 00;18;50;00
Sabrina Zohar
Look at all of these options. It's like, yeah, so there's some negatives that a associated with it is it allowed the Peter Pans to continue Peter Pan ring and it allowed them it's like but what did that also do? One, it allows us to have to meet people that we might not normally. I met my partner on an app like who am I to judge that and say that when every serious relationship that has been of depth in my life I've met thrown out?

00;18;50;02 - 00;19;06;23
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah. And like we met. These are not people I never like. I would I can tell you right now, I would never cross paths with my partner. We have tons of commonalities, but we're not in the same places in order to have done that. So I think the dating apps allow that. And I think what it comes down to, it's we can't blame think about it.

00;19;06;26 - 00;19;22;18
Sabrina Zohar
The dating apps are socially inept built by the socially inept. It's like who built it? People that were scared of rejection at all. Let me just hide behind my phone. So of course there is a lot of that. But what I really think we need to focus on is being a better buyer. And we can't blame the technology and say, Well, the computers are the problem.

00;19;22;18 - 00;19;40;00
Sabrina Zohar
It's like, no, it's the people using the computers that are the problem. So it's not that the apps are the issue. The apps are there because you could be on it. I could be on it. And the thousand people in this room, why is it that because it's a dating app automatically you have to be on there because you want a relationship and that you have to not only do you have to want a relationship, you have to want one with me.

00;19;40;00 - 00;19;42;26
Sabrina Zohar
And if you don't want one with me, what's wrong with you? You're lying.

00;19;43;24 - 00;20;03;01
Sabrina Zohar
It's like, Well, can't we have some space to understand that dating apps are created for people of all different levels? There could be somebody that just got out of a relationship saying, I'm dipping my toe back in somebody that's super ready, Somebody that's not that just wants casual. We can't blame the technology. We have to be the people that are being more discerning with the people that we're willing to give our time to.

00;20;03;01 - 00;20;15;29
Sabrina Zohar
Because just because you met them on an app versus meeting them down the street at a coffee shop doesn't mean that they're better because you met them in person versus on the app. They're fucking around. That guy could go to a thousand coffee shops and be a thousand women just like you could swipe all day. They're not mutually exclusive.

00;20;16;02 - 00;20;35;08
Mike
Right? Okay. Yeah, that's a great perspective. That makes a lot of sense. And also, I guess it's perception, too. And like, if you're I heard somebody say once they ask somebody, what's it like living in so-and-so city? They ask one person and the person said like, it's terrible. The people aren't nice, people are terrible. But then they ask another person and said, The people are great.

00;20;35;08 - 00;20;49;07
Mike
They're so nice, they're so friendly. So it all depends on you and sort of how you feel inside about yourself. And you're going to attract what you're how you're speaking in yourself, your beliefs about yourself, etc., etc.. So I agree that it doesn't have to be terrible. You know.

00;20;49;07 - 00;21;02;19
Sabrina Zohar
It's like my one of my really good friends when she was on the app when we first met in the beginning of last year, she was just like, I hate it and I keep meeting the wrong guy is. And it was all like all rigamarole. And when I we worked together, when I was like, You got to change your mind.

00;21;02;19 - 00;21;20;08
Sabrina Zohar
You have to change your major. Once she started doing the work, then when she went out to Dadi, she was like, Wait a minute, I'm in control too. Like, I get to decide if I like that and was like, Thank you. That's what we've been talking about for the last year. Then she started to really enjoy it, and then she started to meet people where she was using it like exploratory to like become vulnerable with people being like, Wow, if I never see them again.

00;21;20;12 - 00;21;34;07
Sabrina Zohar
And they all wanted to see her again. And she started to realize she was like, Wait a minute. And now she met her boyfriend on an app and now they're together and she's been really happy for the last couple of months. And she message me and she's like, So like she sent me a conversation they had and she's like, So is this like, am I doing it right?

00;21;34;07 - 00;21;42;22
Sabrina Zohar
Is this communication? And I was like, That's it. Her response back was, Holy shit, this is so much easier with somebody that is actually open and ready for it. And I was like, See what I mean?

00;21;42;22 - 00;21;50;25
Sabrina Zohar
We can't blame the apps because she's had amazing experiences. The last like five guys she's dated. Awesome. But she's been such an adult texting me, Hey, I think you're great.

00;21;50;25 - 00;22;05;23
Sabrina Zohar
I'm just not feeling the connection. And they write her back, this really lovely response. Thank you so much for being an adult. I really appreciate that. This means a lot. Good luck. All the best versus her experiences in the beginning of the year because she was coming in in this victim mode of every guy is such an asshole to me and they all are using me.

00;22;05;25 - 00;22;15;19
Sabrina Zohar
So she kept getting that back and it's like when you're going to gamify dating and you're going to put that mindset out there, you can't be shocked with what you're going to get back because what you put out, like you say, it's like a boomerang. What you put out is going to come right back.

00;22;15;19 - 00;22;25;15
Mike
Yeah. Wow. I love that. And I love how you had such internal shift. Like once you do that internal work and make the internal shifts, then things really happen.

00;22;25;18 - 00;22;26;19
Sabrina Zohar
So when I met my partner.

00;22;26;21 - 00;22;50;25
Mike
Yeah, that's awesome. So I want to talk about in one of your podcasts you have an episode called How to Be a Healthier Dater and Date with more intentionality. So you go over how to be comfortable alone, not attaching to the outcome Ghosting questions to ask on dates. Obviously, people should check the episode out to listen to all of it, but can you just give us one or two tips on how someone can be a healthier dater?

00;22;50;28 - 00;23;14;12
Sabrina Zohar
Totally. I mean, I think what comes first to mind is like attaching to the outcome. And expectations are going to be two things that are going to be your detriment. Expectation by definition. What does the actual fucking word mean? Expectation is a belief that something will happen in a specific timeframe. So if we now put that so then you're going to be disappointed because you have a belief it's going to happen in a specific time and when it doesn't happen how you want it, there we go.

00;23;14;18 - 00;23;32;05
Sabrina Zohar
And same with attaching to the outcome. If you're going to go on every date, it has to work. And this is to that scarcity mindset of like it has to be and what if it doesn't work? And then I'm going to be alone and I have to keep doing this. It's like, there we go again. That attaching to the outcome is where we're going to be constantly disappointed when you a first date is just to see if you want have a second date.

00;23;32;08 - 00;23;50;21
Sabrina Zohar
It's not to assess if this is your person, this is your ride or die, you know, when you know and I didn't feel the sparks. It's like instead of living like an Instagram slide, let's live a real fucking life. Like, let's come back to reality to understand most people that go on a first date, that actually have a long term, sustainable, beautiful marriage or relationship.

00;23;50;23 - 00;24;07;13
Sabrina Zohar
I've talked to a bunch of them. Most of them will say I didn't necessarily feel anything on the first day. Like it wasn't fireworks. Yeah, usually the times when it's been like astronomical and my God, this must be fake. Pinch me. I can't believe this is. It's not. It's not. It's because it's so good. It's such an act that it's not sustainable.

00;24;07;15 - 00;24;25;00
Sabrina Zohar
So I think if you really want to be an intentional dater, ask yourself, what is it that I want? I'm so shocked when I work with my clients and I ask them, What is it that you want in a relationship? I can literally see the like from the shot. You can see the wheels turning and I get and then they look in there like I've never stopped to ask myself that.

00;24;25;05 - 00;24;43;21
Sabrina Zohar
Something simple. So I think even that, like you want to move with intention, you need to show up how you want your partner to show up for you. You can't be showing up saying, I'm going to keep my guard up and I'm not letting you in and I'm not sleeping with you for ten date. But then you expect this person to be vulnerable and open and concise and consistent and reciprocal when you're not showing up as that.

00;24;43;27 - 00;24;46;17
Mike
Yeah, that's not that's not fair.

00;24;46;19 - 00;24;54;29
Sabrina Zohar
Like, who's going to stay? Who's going to stick around for that? I think if I met a guy, he was super guarded, I'd be like, Go fucking work on your shit and come back. Like, I'm not. I don't have the time for this. I'm not your fucking therapist.

00;24;55;01 - 00;25;16;14
Mike
When you ask people what do they want? And that question of like, whoa, like I get to choose, but like, are you asking like, I want someone who's honest? Are these, like, traits personality traits, or is it like, I want somebody who works this type of job physically, I'm looking for somebody tall or short. Like, are you literally going through the whole package or is it just more so, like traits or personality traits or of what do you want?

00;25;16;16 - 00;25;31;09
Sabrina Zohar
So for me, when I'm asking, I just want to see if they have an answer. General, like I just am curious to see, do you even know then I'll start to say like, okay, give me your top five, like what comes to mind first? And then if it's usually all focused or on the physical, I'm like, Cool. So you're being shallow, like no depth.

00;25;31;14 - 00;25;44;14
Sabrina Zohar
Then I go into like, okay, let's talk about if you don't know what it is that you want, like I'm looking for more of like, how do you want to feel? How do I want to be treated? What? How do you want this person to show up for you? Not is he six, five or six foot? Is he blond or brunet?

00;25;44;14 - 00;26;03;20
Sabrina Zohar
It's like, listen, what you think you want may not actually be what you need because you think you want all of these things. And like I thought I wanted all of these things. My partner is none of what I thought I wanted, but every goddamn thing I needed. So but he was everything I want compassionate, empathetic, like selfless, thoughtful acts of service.

00;26;03;20 - 00;26;18;05
Sabrina Zohar
Like I for years kept saying, I want a guy that just going to cook for me. Why can't I find a guy that'll just anticipate when I need him? Not in a way of reading my mind, but if, you know, I've had six clients today and I'm slammed, you know, it would make me feel great opening the door and seeing food or seeing cookie or something.

00;26;18;05 - 00;26;29;00
Sabrina Zohar
And every time I leave, I see a note like, Babe, you need to eat. Here's your sandwich. And it's like, he just knows. I know you didn't need to ask me. He's like, But I know you're really stressed and you're exhausted and you're not going to eat unless it's there. So I'm going to put it in front of you.

00;26;29;02 - 00;26;30;05
Mike
that's so nice.

00;26;30;07 - 00;26;46;07
Sabrina Zohar
You know, I was out on my list, like, No, it's like, know, I had always been very clear of, like, I want someone that really thinks of me that when I've had a long day, the bath is running when I get home, not sitting on the couch being like, Hey, babe, can we talk? God, I thought you were just like, God, this is exhausting.

00;26;46;09 - 00;26;50;10
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's great. That's some great tips there.

00;26;50;10 - 00;27;07;16
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00;27;07;16 - 00;27;31;21
Speaker 1
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00;27;40;10 - 00;27;50;20
Mike
So I want to talk about ghosting, which is a big topic. Probably since online dating started. I was wondering if your words you could share like what's considered ghosting versus not ghosting.

00;27;50;22 - 00;28;09;15
Sabrina Zohar
Great question with that. So I'm big on this topic because I think what happens is what we don't what we don't realize or maybe people don't is like what we talked about earlier, that the words you speak and the mindset that you create is what's going to be your reality. So if you walk around saying every guy ghost me, my God, we had a he ghosted me.

00;28;09;15 - 00;28;28;15
Sabrina Zohar
This guy keeps ghosting me. Then what you're saying is like, What's wrong with me? Why is this person keep believe me, they keep they keep abandoning me. And it's like somebody's not responding to your texts for three days is not ghosting you. What is ghosting mean is an abrupt ending to a conversation or a relationship in the middle of it.

00;28;28;22 - 00;28;31;00
Sabrina Zohar
Without communication.

00;28;31;03 - 00;28;32;05
Mike
Right?

00;28;32;08 - 00;28;38;29
Sabrina Zohar
So first off, it's an abrupt ending. So there needs to have been something that began for it to have abruptly ended.

00;28;38;29 - 00;28;51;14
Sabrina Zohar
So you have one date with a guy and you text him and he doesn't text you back. It's not, my God, He goes to me, you know, he doesn't owe that to you. Nobody owes you. And that's I was talking to I think it was Dr. Tacon and Dr. Sam Tech, and I'm not sure I love him.

00;28;51;16 - 00;29;05;15
Sabrina Zohar
And he was like, we're in the most narcissistic era of entitlement. He was like, Everyone thinks that they're owed something all of a sudden because we have the Internet. I should be this. I should be that. I'm so who the fuck are you? So like, when I'm dating, if somebody doesn't respond to me, it's not. this guy ghosted.

00;29;05;18 - 00;29;22;01
Sabrina Zohar
You wasn't interested in pursuing things for whatever his reasons were. Doesn't mean that there's something wrong with me. This guy wasn't interested. Move on to the next. I don't need to take it personally. But what is what is actually ghosting? When I dated a guy for six or seven weeks and we had been intimate, we had met friends and family.

00;29;22;01 - 00;29;31;12
Sabrina Zohar
We had been seeing each other three times a week and we had a date planned. And not only did he stood me up, I never heard from him again. That's ghosting. That is this person just disappeared.

00;29;31;12 - 00;29;39;17
Sabrina Zohar
But I think it's such a muddied water of like after one or two dates. He does owe me this. It's like, listen, would it be nice for somebody to text you and say, Listen, I think you're great.

00;29;39;17 - 00;29;59;23
Sabrina Zohar
I'm not interested. Yeah, but do they owe that to us? No. And we don't need to villainize people that if you're dating five or six people, like, I think people forget what it feels like to date multiple people. If I'm dating five or six people at one time because I'm putting myself out there and I don't want to just settle with one person, I want to make sure that the person I give my time to is the person that deserves my time and is showing up authentically.

00;29;59;25 - 00;30;12;20
Sabrina Zohar
Well, then that means there are going to be people that aren't going to have the same attention because that's just not my priority. So if I went on one date and this guy all of a sudden is texting me a million times saying I ghosted him, it's like, No, dude, I don't know you, I don't owe you anything.

00;30;12;25 - 00;30;29;08
Sabrina Zohar
And so I think we need to rein that back. And that's why I say drop expectations. Stop attaching it to the outcome. And a first date is just to see if you want to have a second date. If a person doesn't respond, that's okay. Move on with your fucking life. But stop going around saying how you've been ghosted and you get ghosted and this guy keeps ghosting me.

00;30;29;12 - 00;30;35;10
Sabrina Zohar
What that tells me is that you have terrible boundaries and if somebody can continue to ghost you, then why are you allowing it?

00;30;35;12 - 00;30;55;23
Mike
That's true too. Okay, thank you for that clarification. So in another one of your popular posts on your Instagram account, it was titled Run If someone you are dating or have just started seeing says any of these three things and the three things are one, I'm not looking for anything serious. Two, you're too good for me. I don't deserve you.

00;30;55;26 - 00;31;03;26
Mike
And three, when someone calls all of their exes crazy, if any of those things, three things come out, why should somebody head for the hills?

00;31;03;29 - 00;31;18;07
Sabrina Zohar
So the first one, I'm not looking for anything serious. That person is telling you where they are. Stop trying to change people. You cannot change other people. I remember I was talking to a partner about that and he said I used to tell women I'm not ready for a relationship and nothing you do is going to change that.

00;31;18;07 - 00;31;35;03
Sabrina Zohar
So I would highly suggest you save your energy and stop trying. Like he was very blunt about that. And I said, Do women try? He's like, they still tried. They still would say, But I understand. Am I not good enough? And he's like, What are you not understanding? This is not about you. Stop making this about you. And so it's like when someone tells you where they are, believe them.

00;31;35;07 - 00;31;49;01
Sabrina Zohar
If you just started dating a guy, I can probably speak for most men. Honest. If the guy wants to hook up with you, do you really think he's going to fuck up his chances by telling you he's not ready for a relationship and knowing that you are so that you see what I'm saying? He's not lying to you when he says that.

00;31;49;04 - 00;32;03;14
Sabrina Zohar
So that's the first thing is like so many women will try to let me change them. Good luck. You're just going to exhaust yourself. The second one being somebody saying I don't deserve him to. Good. What they're trying to say to you is either they want the accolades. No, you're not. No, you're not too good. They want that validation.

00;32;03;22 - 00;32;17;20
Sabrina Zohar
So they're doing like that passive kind of like protest behavior where they like it's a bid for connection. Or oftentimes what that means is I know where you're at and I'm not going to do the work in order to get there. Like I know that I need to step up to be that guy. And I'm telling you right now, I'm not going to do it.

00;32;17;22 - 00;32;32;18
Sabrina Zohar
And so it's like there's it's two sides of the coin. It could be two different things. And then the all my exes are crazy. That's narcissism. One on one. Yeah. Listen, I when I talk about my ex, what do I say? My ex was a narcissist and I was incredibly unhealthy. I was super toxic. I had low self-esteem.

00;32;32;20 - 00;32;52;29
Sabrina Zohar
I take full accountability of my part in being in that relationship versus when I met my that same ex. Every ex of his was crazy. He didn't do anything. It's so it's so weird. He has no idea why all of them just went into. I've been added to that list. The three girlfriends after that have been added to that list.

00;32;53;02 - 00;33;07;22
Sabrina Zohar
I see it with every narcissist that comes into my They're all crazy. Y I'll never forget my dad. He went to therapy with my mom in Florida to get a divorce. You have to go to a therapist. So yeah. Who knew? And so I can. I asked my mom. I said, How did you get Dad to get diagnosed as a narcissist?

00;33;07;22 - 00;33;24;08
Sabrina Zohar
Like, how did you get him to therapy? And she's like, Are you kidding me? She was like, I have to. She's like, He wanted that divorce. She said the minute they walked in, he looked at the therapist and said, okay, finally. Now somebody can tell her all the issues that she has and why she's the problem. Yeah. And so after they talked, the therapist pulled my mom aside and said, Thank God I'm going to.

00;33;24;08 - 00;33;39;03
Sabrina Zohar
Not only am I going to sign off on this divorce, I'm going to sign off on you being proud about this divorce. She was like, Because you're with a narcissist and you need to run. Wow. And that's what I mean by narcissist. Don't take accountability. So if somebody's going to say, I don't know all my I didn't do anything.

00;33;39;03 - 00;33;50;21
Sabrina Zohar
It was all of them. They're crazy, Really. So you didn't do anything? There's nothing. Nothing. Not even I don't know if I'm even dating crazy women. You know what I mean? Like, so you still there's nothing that you're accountable for.

00;33;50;23 - 00;34;06;26
Mike
I think there should be a dating site where you have to have the last three girlfriends or partners you've had. And like, a detailed dossier testimonial. Testimonial? Yeah. Thank you. And then we'll see if it's really true. If the exes are crazy or, hey, like, you kind of made them a little bit crazy with your behavior.

00;34;06;28 - 00;34;21;02
Sabrina Zohar
So. Right. And we have to remember, people trigger each other differently, you know, like, that's why I hate those. Are we dating the same guy? Facebook groups. I understand the intention of it. I get it like, you know, you're trying to help your girl out. But what it turns into, which is actually so I had a support group for do the work.

00;34;21;02 - 00;34;39;13
Sabrina Zohar
I had to close it because it turned into that many shit. Men are trash and posting photos of people without blurring their face out screenshots of their phone number and it's like, I'm sorry, you first of all, this guy is setting a boundary and you're being a fucking asshole to him, but you're coming out as the victim. What a rude guy.

00;34;39;13 - 00;34;52;00
Sabrina Zohar
He's such a jerk. Cool. So if I take your word for it and then I don't give him a chance. But we don't know if it's. You had a bad experience because of who you are or if we had a bad experience because of how you both come together and trigger each other.

00;34;52;06 - 00;35;10;06
Mike
Right, right, right. That makes so much sense. And like, hey, let's talk about the last few guys that you did last year, relations you've been in. Like, has it been always the exact same type of guy? So that makes a lot of sense what you're saying there. Thanks for sharing that. So another topic you cover is how to trust when you start to date.

00;35;10;06 - 00;35;29;17
Mike
This is obviously a really big, big topic for people, especially fearful avoidance of trust issues, childhood. A lot of times their trust was broken many times, or maybe somebody has had a bad string of relationships where they've been cheated on over and over. What's the mindset or a way to trust a little more when we're starting to date?

00;35;29;19 - 00;35;44;28
Sabrina Zohar
For me, the first thing is, is if you want to trust other people, you need to trust yourself because you can't trust other people if you don't trust yourself. If you don't trust that, you can gauge people's you know, if I like, if I'm looking and saying now he's a good guy, if I don't trust myself, how am I going to be able to assess other people?

00;35;45;05 - 00;36;02;05
Sabrina Zohar
How am I going to be able to assess damage risk or you know what I mean? Like, is there a threat? Not so. I think the first thing is if you trust yourself that no matter what, you will be okay. No matter what happens, you're going to be fine. Look, every single person that's here right now that is a grown ass adult has been through some kind of pain.

00;36;02;07 - 00;36;18;14
Sabrina Zohar
Whether it's You've never been had a terrible breakup. I'm not just saying that you've had some kind of courage. And if you are in your adult life and you've never had a catastrophic big issue, kudos to you. I wish all of us could live that. We've all experienced turmoil. You didn't get the job you wanted. You didn't get this, you get that.

00;36;18;14 - 00;36;33;08
Sabrina Zohar
And we're all okay, right? We are all still here. So we have to be able when we're entering dating, if it's every person's and all of your exes cheated on you, well, then that what that means is that they were able to gaslight manipulate you. So even if you had one girl write in and say, No, this is such toxic bullshit.

00;36;33;08 - 00;36;50;13
Sabrina Zohar
I had a guy and I was. I told him that the communication felt off. He gaslit me to say I was crazy and strung me along for eight more months. I'm sorry, that sounds like a you problem. You didn't trust yourself that there was an issue. You you allowed him to convince you that there wasn't. I'm not blaming you for that.

00;36;50;18 - 00;37;02;16
Sabrina Zohar
But you can't blame him for stringing you along for eight more months. When if the words and the behavior aren't matching and you trust yourself that you feel that, then you're going to make the steps and the changes to walk away from somebody that's not meeting you where you want to be met.

00;37;02;18 - 00;37;22;21
Mike
Exactly. Yeah. So like, unless you tied an actual string to you and had held you against your will and, you know, there was an opportunity for you to see those things and choose to, to walk away. But again, not the person's fault. We're not going to say, you know, they didn't get manipulated. But, you know, again, there's always two pieces to the to the puzzle.

00;37;22;21 - 00;37;24;12
Mike
And we have to take accountability.

00;37;24;15 - 00;37;40;24
Sabrina Zohar
As I say, you got to take accountability. I'm not blaming them to say shame on you, but it's so you want to blame everyone else, but you're not going to say you're right, actually, like, hey, yeah, When he told me that you're right, I didn't I didn't trust myself. I did believe him. And I'm angrier with myself than I am with him because who got strong along?

00;37;40;24 - 00;37;56;14
Sabrina Zohar
I did, which meant I played a part in that it's not of shaming myself and saying I'm such a bad person, I'm terrible. How do you not see it? No, no, no. But if you instead of looking, how did I not see the red flags? What parts of myself needed, what they were giving me so bad, and how can I give that to myself now?

00;37;56;16 - 00;38;16;19
Mike
Right, Exactly. Thank you. So I want to talk about the spark. We've all had it when we met someone. You describe the spark as a mix of excitement and stress just want to ask, what if you've never felt that spark with your partner? Should we be worried? Or what if you never had that spark in the beginning? Is there something to worry about?

00;38;16;19 - 00;38;19;08
Mike
Or is this something that's not about saying?

00;38;19;10 - 00;38;39;13
Sabrina Zohar
I don't think it's. I personally mean, I've never had a spark with my partner, and it's because the spark can often indicate a mix of an excitement and nervousness. The nervous system, it could indicate just dysregulation in the nervous system, because any time that I've had that spark in that crazy my God, it's because they were really reminiscent of all the other guys I dated or they were super narcissistic, really charming.

00;38;39;15 - 00;38;58;15
Sabrina Zohar
On the first date. You pinch yourself because you're like, How is this real? It's like, that's why. Because it's not. And my issue is when you're chasing a feeling, you're always going to be chasing something else. And I even realize that my own business is like I was chasing numbers and it was never enough because when I got that feeling, I want more and I want more and I want more because it's not about the feeling.

00;38;58;17 - 00;39;12;09
Sabrina Zohar
So if you're always going for the spark, I need the spark. How is that sustainable? You're not in a relationship. You're not always going to feel that. So then when it dips down, like I have a client of mine right now, we're dealing with that. The guy has never really been in a relationship. So he saw there they had a little bit of conflict.

00;39;12;09 - 00;39;30;29
Sabrina Zohar
She even said she's looking at the saying, we could work through this. And he's doing I do want to talk to you like you do. And she's like, I'm not understanding like we had we're just trying to repair the conflict. That's how we build a connection, conflict resolution. And it's so because he thinks everything should just be this high and well, if there's any conflict, then this is a bad sign.

00;39;31;05 - 00;39;49;02
Sabrina Zohar
When you chase a feeling, you're only going to be left empty when that feeling is gone. Instead, we want to seek calm, nervous system. Do I feel relaxed with this person? Do I feel safe Like when I'm with him? Am I constant? Do I have the butterflies all the time? Well, that's probably because I'm really nervous and anxious because I'm scared of losing them.

00;39;49;02 - 00;39;55;02
Sabrina Zohar
So that means I'm not being authentically myself, which means I'm not show. It happened. There we go. There we go. Why? We don't want to chase the spark.

00;39;55;04 - 00;40;11;29
Mike
Yeah, that makes so much sense. So in business, when you said you're not chasing, like, the numbers, what's something we should be looking for? For success? Like sustained success? Well, we're not chasing. I need to make X million dollars. What's a better way to. To look at it?

00;40;12;01 - 00;40;27;22
Sabrina Zohar
The way I look at it is my friend Masha. She's a nervous system like coach and she's, in fact, incredible. And we were talking about this and she was like, instead of chasing those numbers, she's like, How do you want to live? How do you want to feel? that's my benchmark of success of like, like give an example, I was working so hard for the last few months.

00;40;27;22 - 00;40;41;23
Sabrina Zohar
My partner and I were moving into our new home together and we went I had a 700 square foot apartment, so like a one bedroom for myself. And now we have a three bedroom, 2500 square foot home. From the beginning, I set myself a goal of I'm going to be really stoked when we have the house, we have all of this stuff done.

00;40;41;29 - 00;40;57;17
Sabrina Zohar
My benchmark for success wasn't that I made this much money this month or I made this much. My benchmark for success was I achieve the goals that I set myself out to. And the reason I achieved those is because having this home now meant that the life I was going to live is more relaxed. We have a hot tub now, we've got a podcast room.

00;40;57;20 - 00;41;09;15
Sabrina Zohar
So instead of focusing on the actual okay, I'm going to get a 2500 square foot home and this is next. I said, okay, I want the freedom to be able to work from home. I want the freedom to be able to have recovery whenever I want it. I want the freedom to be able to go to the gym any time.

00;41;09;18 - 00;41;23;16
Sabrina Zohar
So what did that mean? That meant I had to get a home that had all of these things. So it's not that I need to make $1,000,000 this year for me to be successful. It's I want to live a life like this. Okay, so how do I. So that means I have to achieve these specific goals in order to hit that.

00;41;23;18 - 00;41;38;17
Sabrina Zohar
So I have now been transitioning from it's not that I need to have a certain amount everybody, I need to go viral and I need to hit this. Yeah, goals are nice. Of course we run businesses, but my benchmark for success is am I feeling the feelings that I've been working so hard for my living, the life that I'm trying to create?

00;41;38;17 - 00;41;42;13
Sabrina Zohar
If I'm not, well, then the numbers don't mean anything. If I'm miserable and unhappy.

00;41;42;15 - 00;42;03;08
Mike
Right now, that makes sense. That's great. I want to talk about one of your podcast episodes entitled Cheating The Mind of a Cheater, and debunking Once a Cheater, Always a Cheater. This is a very polarizing topic. But in a nutshell, why is once a cheater always a cheater? Possibly an inaccurate statement?

00;42;03;11 - 00;42;19;19
Sabrina Zohar
Because you're what you're saying is that people can't change that cheating is because, that's a personality thing. It's like, listen, if you're bipolar now, you're right. You're not going to change that. That is your chemical. Like, if you're autistic, certain aspects, you can't change who you are. Like, I can't change your chemical makeup or your DNA and things like that.

00;42;19;22 - 00;42;33;13
Sabrina Zohar
But saying once a cheater, always a cheater. So what you're saying is people can't evolve. People can't grow because cheating, as I'm sure we all have come to learn to find out in this industry, very rarely does it actually have to do with the other person. It's not because, well, they're just not good enough for me. And so I'm just going to seek elsewhere.

00;42;33;15 - 00;42;48;09
Sabrina Zohar
Usually what it comes down to is the inner work that needs to happen. And I have clients that cheated on their partners and they worked and now they've never cheated again because they worked through the reasons and the issues that led them to cheat. So I think when we pigeonhole people, it's like I find my partner says this all the time.

00;42;48;09 - 00;43;05;11
Sabrina Zohar
He's like, Stop making it 140 characters or less. People love just a slogan they like to hold on to. Once a cheater, always a cheater, it makes them feel better. But what we don't do is, again, that's the that works for Instagram for quick read. But what that doesn't do is it doesn't translate into real life because real life would mean so that every person that's cheated can't change.

00;43;05;11 - 00;43;21;26
Sabrina Zohar
So then a good portion of the population is fucked. Then want to want an anxious, always an anxious. It's like, well, no that can we can work through that. So I think it's just it's too black and white and it doesn't allow enough gray. It's like if he wanted to he would. It's not about want if I do.

00;43;21;28 - 00;43;34;28
Sabrina Zohar
well, I must not want to be rich enough. Well, I don't want it bad enough. It's like, Well, can we understand that people are nuanced and that there's more under the hood than just an overarching statement that just makes you feel better because then you don't have to do any more work on yourself.

00;43;35;00 - 00;43;38;13
Mike
That's really not fair to apply that to everyone.

00;43;38;16 - 00;43;39;09
Sabrina Zohar
Not at all.

00;43;39;12 - 00;43;57;11
Mike
So just on a personal note, like, I just want to know we all have favorite things we like to share or talk about within our chosen profession. So with dating, coaching and relationships, is there an area that you really love talking about or that you like to teach? Like what area is sort of your favorite within what you do?

00;43;57;13 - 00;44;10;13
Sabrina Zohar
So what sucks is like the algorithms on the internet make you like kind of force our hands to create like clickbait, you know, And it's like it's not I don't want to talk about texting all the time. I don't want to talk about if you want to be what I'm like, I don't want to deal with the trolls and all that stuff.

00;44;10;13 - 00;44;29;19
Sabrina Zohar
It's like, But that's how you get your name out there. Okay, fine. What do I genuinely love to do? I love to bring people home. I love to bring people back to themselves. Do the inner like inner child work is one of my favorite things to do with my clients of like, let's talk about like, I love nothing more than when my clients are anxious, working through a process so that we can start to understand where their anxiety coming from, where is it in their body?

00;44;29;19 - 00;44;46;28
Sabrina Zohar
What's the narrative and how we can work through it? Because I love seeing people open their eyes with tears and they're like, I have never felt this before. And it's like just allowing people come back into their body, into their vessel and into their home is literally why I do this, because it took me since 2016 to figure all this stuff out.

00;44;47;00 - 00;44;56;17
Sabrina Zohar
2017. So I'm hopeful to give it to you in a little bit more of a condensed bite size version to help people grow and expedite their stages and their development a little bit quicker than I did.

00;44;56;20 - 00;45;12;00
Mike
I love that. It's really beautiful. So we're coming towards the end of our podcast today. Thank you again for being here. Before we leave, do you want to share a tool or strategy or a mindset with our audience that could help them in dating relationships or life in general?

00;45;12;02 - 00;45;34;02
Sabrina Zohar
Yes. Between your reaction and your response, put a breath. So when I did the podcast episode, John Kim So put a speedbump. Put a buck speedbump when you want. I know it. I know answering a disregulation feels like it's the right response, but I've even learned how many times I've been about to type something or text something or send something and I can feel my eyes are darting.

00;45;34;06 - 00;45;59;11
Sabrina Zohar
That's my disregulation. I get really overheated and my eyes dart. Okay, if I were in the wild, that would make sense. I'm searching for safety, right? Yeah. But when I'm texting somebody that doesn't really I'm not in danger. So I've learned I'll type it out and then I drop my phone. I don't send anything, and then I type it out in my notes and I leave it if and when I've regulated myself, if I come back and still feel that great and I have usually one or two people, Marcia and my partner that I go to to say, Hey, I need I need a gut check, it's okay to have that.

00;45;59;11 - 00;46;15;00
Sabrina Zohar
It's okay to put some space in between a response and a reaction. Because if you consistently react and you don't know how to just put your fucking phone down, then you need to take control of your self a lot more than you might think you do because it's not other people's responsibility to control your emotions. That's your goddamn job.

00;46;15;02 - 00;46;23;05
Mike
That's really helpful. Before we go, is there anything else you want to share with our audience? I know we covered a lot, but is there anything else you wanted to share?

00;46;23;08 - 00;46;35;24
Sabrina Zohar
I think the only the last bit I'll leave it off with is like, if you're somebody that's struggling right now and everything is why is this keep happening to me? We need to shift your mindset to why is this happening for me? What's happening for me? Because all of these things happening in your life are not a moot point.

00;46;35;24 - 00;46;54;02
Sabrina Zohar
They're all leading you somewhere, whether you see it or not. I there are so many times like even when my dad passed away and I'm like, Why? Why, why? And it's like, yeah, later on I start to realize why all of those things happened. They might not have needed to happen per se, but here we are. So if you're going through anything right now, try to turn it inwards, Try to see, okay, what's coming up for me.

00;46;54;02 - 00;47;03;00
Sabrina Zohar
And just at the very least, to start asking yourself, how am I feeling? Where am I feeling it? Just start to understand yourself a little bit better. That's the best piece of advice I could give.

00;47;03;03 - 00;47;09;04
Mike
That's great advice. And last one at least. What are you offering these days and where can people find you.

00;47;09;06 - 00;47;23;17
Sabrina Zohar
So you can find me? My new website will be up February 1st. Sabrina's of dot com, which is exciting. Do the Work podcast of course the work podcast on Instagram or on Spotify, Apple, Amazon, Google Spirit and Zohar and TikTok and Instagram if you want the short form and I have just released, I have two more spots left.

00;47;23;17 - 00;47;34;04
Sabrina Zohar
I'm doing a coaching program that's a lot more intensive. I even do my one on ones and then there's just tons of different resources. My bio coming up with courses and so many new things for the new Year that I'm really excited about, about.

00;47;34;04 - 00;47;48;02
Mike
That's amazing. Sabrina, thank you so much for being here today. I know I really enjoyed it. I'm sure our audience is going to love it as well. I'd love to keep touch and, you know, maybe hear from how things are going on a year from now. But I just want to thank you for being here today and giving us your time.

00;47;48;04 - 00;47;49;09
Sabrina Zohar
Thanks, Mike. I appreciate you having.

00;47;49;09 - 00;47;55;28
Mike
Me for sure. And everyone listening and watching. Thank you for being here today. And as always best of luck on your healing journey.