00:00:00:00 - 00:00:11:19
Cynthia
I think it was after a year of joining the school that I asked that question and a notice of support of the community was, and it made me feel less alone in my experiences

00:00:11:19 - 00:00:14:05
Cynthia
at that time I started to work on communication and it

00:00:14:05 - 00:00:18:03
Cynthia
was really helpful to get insights from other attachment styles.

00:00:18:04 - 00:00:23:24
Cynthia
It don't only help my communication, but I also gain more understanding and compassion towards others.

00:00:24:00 - 00:01:15:09
Thais
Hello and welcome to the Personal Development School Podcast. I am so excited you are here. I am your co-host, Titus Gibson, along with our new special host, Mike Vizio. This is a podcast that discusses everything related to integrated attachment theory. The New attachment theory, along with the subconscious mind relationships, communication needs boundaries and so much more. Throughout this podcast, you'll see a series of episodes I upload with new information, educational tips, all about how to thrive in relationships and really master your emotional state in your life, along with special guests hosted by Mike Zito to discuss all of these amazing topics and longer form content. Thank you so much for being here and I really hope you enjoy this episode.

00:01:15:09 - 00:01:35:16
Mike
Welcome back. Personal development school listeners and viewers. We're back with another episode where my guest today is Cynthia. She's been a member of the Personal Development School for almost three years now. She's attended a lot of my routines that I host. So I've seen her and her growth and progression over the last three years. And it's been a really a treat to watch.

00:01:35:18 - 00:01:52:13
Mike
Today, we're going to talk about her journey, how things have been, some of the challenges she might have experienced through this whole healing journey and just checking in with Cynthia and seeing how things are going and how she's doing after being in school for three years. Hello, Cynthia. How you doing today?

00:01:52:15 - 00:01:54:01
Cynthia
Hi, I'm good. How are you?

00:01:54:03 - 00:02:03:21
Mike
Pretty good, thank you. Thanks for being here today. So just to start off, can you share with us how you first recognized the need for healing your attachment style?

00:02:03:21 - 00:02:37:12
Cynthia
so in 2015, a close friend of mine finished her PhD on childhood abuse and disorganized attachment style, and I look things up after her Ph.D. But what I mostly found was information related to anxious and dismissive attachment styles, and I really resonated with both. But there was no ready approach on how to work through things. So at that time I didn't think much of it.

00:02:37:14 - 00:03:05:10
Cynthia
So I focused on other things. So fast forward in 2020, I didn't understand my thought and coldness towards my family and the partner I was dating at the time. And I did a test on Psychology Today and it said I was a fearful, avoidant mom. And that's also when thesis videos kept popping up in my YouTube feed.

00:03:05:10 - 00:03:08:15
Mike
You know, the algorithm.

00:03:08:17 - 00:03:35:16
Cynthia
Was so helpful for me, I think at the time. And after bingeing a bunch of videos, it felt so great to finally understand myself. And I remember carefully sharing with my therapist, I was seeing that it was disorganized and she started laughing and she said, Yes, you are.

00:03:35:16 - 00:03:42:21
Cynthia
But at that time, I was still hesitant to join the school since I was already in therapy.

00:03:42:23 - 00:03:57:04
Cynthia
But when Ty's launched a course on how to heal any relationship, I could focus both on my relationship to my family and on my romantic relationships.

00:03:57:06 - 00:04:06:02
Mike
Right. Wonderful. That's great. Do you want to let us know what we're sort of some of the big challenges or key challenges you faced at the beginning of your journey.

00:04:06:02 - 00:04:16:08
Cynthia
I can think of two things we in the beginning I inherited build the courses and doing all the coursework.

00:04:16:08 - 00:04:20:02
Mike
So typical, I say go going all in.

00:04:20:04 - 00:04:49:18
Cynthia
He asks me to go jumping from one course to another. And yeah, it was a total mess, but it was also it felt a little bit like an addiction, right? Like gathering up all the knowledge I could get, like a little hamster getting all the information in my cheeks. Yeah, yeah. But while it was also freeing to know all the information that was provided by PDS, I felt very understood.

00:04:49:20 - 00:05:12:03
Cynthia
It was also very difficult to realize that I needed more in my childhood, so I carried a lot of anger, resentment and sadness towards my parents in the beginning, and that was very painful. I would say later on that changed to having more compassion for their situation as well.

00:05:12:05 - 00:05:28:00
Mike
Right. Right. Okay. Thanks for sharing that. So when they move on next to can you highlight like within the personal development school, was there a specific moment or an exercise that really impacted your understanding of your attachment style?

00:05:28:00 - 00:05:53:18
Cynthia
I think the hot and coldness explanation was very helpful, but most empowering exercise impedes is for me the art of suggestion, where you reprogram your core wounds and it carved out a nicely little time for myself before I started my day, and it felt as a good meditation at the same time. It helped me to slow down.

00:05:53:18 - 00:06:01:01
Cynthia
It also helped me to understand my emotions better and to catch myself in real time when those wounds would pop up.

00:06:01:03 - 00:06:11:12
Mike
Right. That's amazing. So you're more of a start start of the day type person. You would do more of your work and order suggested in the morning hours as opposed to the evening. Now.

00:06:11:14 - 00:06:29:13
Cynthia
I no, I'm actually not a morning person, but this one really helped me to not rush, rush, rush, rush, rush. I eat and and go to work. Yeah, it helped me wake and helped to wake up and give myself some time in the morning.

00:06:29:15 - 00:06:52:24
Mike
I love that. That's so important. It is actually something I'm focusing on too, because the days where I wake up really close to like my first meeting or like right when I have to start work, I get flustered, easier, I find, and you know, everything comes at you all at once. Emails and all that stuff. But if you take that time in the morning to sort of ease into your day and do a bit of a mental check in and connect with yourself, I definitely find the days a lot easier.

00:06:52:24 - 00:06:55:20
Mike
And it sounds like you're doing that for yourself as well.

00:06:55:22 - 00:07:01:17
Cynthia
Yeah, for sure. It definitely sets the tone for your day.

00:07:01:19 - 00:07:11:04
Mike
Were you setting the alarm earlier or were you just being a little more intentional with, You know what? I'm going to make sure I do this first and then start my day.

00:07:11:06 - 00:07:28:20
Cynthia
Well, when I was doing PDC, I was doing my second degree, so I was a bit more flexible with my time and yeah, I woke up around 730 and then the first half hour was tedious. Time out, a suggestion I would say, and

00:07:28:20 - 00:07:37:00
Mike
So, Cindy, with the auto suggestion tool, how did that help you sort of make a breakthrough in your healing process?

00:07:37:00 - 00:07:37:17
Cynthia
So

00:07:37:17 - 00:08:11:01
Cynthia
working on my core, we switched on a suggestion and helped me not to personalize things anymore. Yeah, I started working on my anxious core bones at the first couple. Yeah. First months and every one of my anxiety, I found it a bit more difficult to work on my important site, especially the trust traps. How are those and effective wounds?

00:08:11:03 - 00:08:22:07
Cynthia
Because they made me, quote unquote, feel safe. I worked on them last year and they muted my shame a lot as well, so.

00:08:22:07 - 00:08:49:03
Mike
that's interesting. Yeah. With you avoidant wounds being a little harder to let go of because you're saying, in essence, they felt like they were sort of keeping you safe, Right? So it is sort of vulnerable to work on those and, you know, open open yourself up. So that's that's really brave. So how would you say overall your relationships have changed since you started since you joined the personal development school and worked on your attachment style

00:08:49:03 - 00:09:23:03
Cynthia
I am fortunate enough that I've always had enough close friends. They've always accepted me who I was. I do see now that I can share more with them. Also being aware of things, and I used to think that my family dynamics were everyone's family dynamics and share more. I realized this is not the case. And when it comes to difficult, having difficult conversations with friends or other people, I don't shy away from them anymore.

00:09:23:05 - 00:09:55:02
Cynthia
Where I used to have, like, a very strong, slight reaction. I know can have a positive outcome instead of a negative one. So my perspective towards having difficult conversations is different. I always thought, why bother having a conflict communication? And I really if I really needed to defend myself, I would get very, very testy aggression. Now I can address things in a moment or ask to rehash things later on.

00:09:55:04 - 00:09:57:22
Mike
I have a go ahead. I'm sorry. We're going to say something else.

00:09:57:22 - 00:10:05:07
Cynthia
It was definitely praxis having those difficult conversations. And I'm still practicing. I would say for sure.

00:10:05:09 - 00:10:17:06
Mike
Yeah. Even though we do the healing work, there's always going to be, you know, more practice or, you know, if if it's things that we've been dealing with our whole life, you know, that it's not going to be just effortless for, for the rest of our lives.

00:10:17:06 - 00:10:23:14
Cynthia
So no, it's not model to teach to some people so that you have to practice it. Yeah.

00:10:23:16 - 00:10:46:10
Mike
Exactly. I want to just ask about a couple of things there so that you mentioned. So you had a big friends friend group where you said you were fortunate enough to have a friends. Were they at first like, whoa, like, who's this new Cynthia who's, you know, come showing up as was different? Or were they like, Wow, this is really like building more intimacy and closeness?

00:10:46:12 - 00:11:30:07
Cynthia
No, they've been always been very supportive. They always knew that it was going through therapy and also that I was going through a couple of things with my family and I'm I think they always knew, but I didn't. It's a there is a comedian out there, Taylor Tomlinson, and she talks about mental health a lot. And there's one sketch where she's sharing that she I think she she's she has one of the one about disorder, I think bipolar.

00:11:30:09 - 00:11:53:20
Cynthia
And she shared it with her friends. And she was surprised with the reaction of their friends because they were not like, you do you have a bipolar and there are no more like, no, we always knew you had something. We didn't have a name for it. Yeah. So that's was basically what with my friends as well.

00:11:53:20 - 00:12:00:15
Cynthia
But it was a bit more Yeah, a bit more compassion too. Right. And also.

00:12:00:18 - 00:12:23:18
Mike
Yeah, I love that. And I mention that because you know how like our face might struggle with boundaries or asserting their needs or basically speaking up. And some people who are used to being with somebody who's more people pleasing and not speaking up when the new person comes up and starts to sort of challenge the person. They can they can be a little bit like, Whoa, like what?

00:12:23:23 - 00:12:44:23
Mike
What's this? Or I don't I don't know if I like this new, new version. Like, sometimes takes a little while to get used to. So that's great that you had, like, really supportive friends who sort of accepted you almost no matter what. But now you can, you know, be yourself and share more. And the probably feels feels a lot better now.

00:12:45:00 - 00:13:12:24
Cynthia
Yeah, I was actually going through my report cards a couple of days ago and from like first grade kid in kindergarten and it said like, I think the first month it was Cynthia is very insecure, has lack of concentration. And then three months later it turned into since Cynthia is a very sociable girl, she makes lots of new friends.

00:13:12:24 - 00:13:25:11
Cynthia
And I'm just very grateful that my school and my teachers and the friends I made there were just just wonderful. Yeah, I think it helped me a lot

00:13:25:11 - 00:13:43:07
Mike
Another thing I want to mention, too, is when you said you got, like, hyper defensive before, like somebody would say something and you would be like, defending like there is no tomorrow. It makes so much sense because, you know, if we're criticizing ourselves a lot, then when somebody else goes to do it, we're like, hell no.

00:13:43:07 - 00:14:00:15
Mike
Or like, I'm the only one who's going to be beating on myself. You're not going to come here and say this and we get overly defensive. Did you find that? Did you find, you know, you might have been critical in your own self and then when somebody might criticize you, you'd get sort of really defensive because of that.

00:14:00:17 - 00:14:24:11
Cynthia
Yeah. Yeah. But what it also was, was people. Please, People, please, people, please, people, please. And this is too much people pleasing. No, you really crossed something. And the only way I could speak up was to get, like, very flustered and. And very loud.

00:14:24:13 - 00:14:48:07
Mike
Yeah. yeah, that makes sense. Like, if you just people pleasing all of us all the time, that's only one part of you, right? So you're sort of like hiding the side that wants to, like, be really strong and assertive and communicate. So because that's been suppressed for so long, it probably just comes out and, you know, in ways that people are like, well, like she's really upset, right now or, you know, this is not the usual Cynthia, you know.

00:14:48:09 - 00:15:03:07
Cynthia
Yeah. And they don't understand it either. And it's mostly about little things as well. But to me it wasn't little things because it was like piling up and then it was like a bomb exploding, right? Yeah. It's confusing for other people.

00:15:03:09 - 00:15:20:00
Mike
For sure. When they don't know what's going on in our internal reality. They might be really confused when they see sort of just the the end product of days, weeks or months of sort of the build up. So I'm glad you're you're sort of not having that as much because it's I know it's challenging.

00:15:20:00 - 00:15:44:04
Speaker 1
So I have some really exciting news and it's that integrated attachment theory training is back. In other words, you can be trained to become a relationship coach, certified an integrated attachment theory in literally 60 days. So who is this for? Well, of course it is for any individual who wants to make an impact and really be of service to others while also obtaining freedom and flexibility and abundance in their lives.

00:15:44:06 - 00:16:12:15
Speaker 1
And this is also for anybody who is already a counselor, a therapist, a coach, and just really wants to expand their toolkit. We've had so many people enter into the Integrated Attachment Theory program because they're just looking to obtain a certain degree of mastery in terms of understanding their own attachment patterns and also the attachment patterns of maybe their children or partner or other loved ones in their lives so they can really support those people and understand them more deeply.

00:16:12:17 - 00:16:29:06
Speaker 1
So please keep in mind that the last two times we ran this program, we filled up very fast. In fact, we oversold the programs and sold out completely. So if you're interested that, click the link below to learn more and dive in with me. And I'd love to see you there on the other side before seats run out.

00:16:29:06 - 00:16:32:18
Mike
So, Cynthia, what would you say if someone was just starting their own journey?

00:16:32:18 - 00:16:38:02
Mike
What would be sort of an advice or something you'd say to them, Who is just starting to heal their attachment style?

00:16:38:04 - 00:17:02:21
Cynthia
Working on yourself takes time, and it can be overwhelming. Sometimes it can be lonely sometimes, especially when you work through toxic shame. But yeah, reach out to those close friends you have or and the members. And in case you don't like in the school itself, I think the community is very supportive as well for sure.

00:17:02:24 - 00:17:26:18
Mike
We have a lot of those support groups where you can kind of show up and people are always willing to lend an ear. There's people of obviously like attachment style. So when you share, like they're going to understand sort of what you're going through and have the same probably triggers and core wounds and whatnot. So definitely, yeah, there's a lot of support in the school and I'm glad you got to take advantage of that.

00:17:26:20 - 00:17:35:08
Mike
What would you say? Are there any specific tools or techniques that you found specifically helpful that you'd recommend to people on their healing journey?

00:17:35:10 - 00:17:57:13
Cynthia
Yeah. So I already mentioned on a suggestion, but also an honorable mention for the emotional processing tool and shadow work with the emotional processing tool. It helps you to question your stories in real time and shadow work allows me to have more compassion towards others and again, myself.

00:17:57:15 - 00:18:04:13
Mike
Right? that's wonderful. Would you say the webinars are a key piece in in helping people hear?

00:18:04:13 - 00:18:38:00
Cynthia
I remember the webinars in the beginning were overwhelming because there was so much information. Yeah, so like half of it I didn't understand. So but now I go back to webinars before I joined and I learned still so much from every answer. Chinese kids and so nuanced and detailed. So yeah, I find so much to learn still from every.

00:18:38:00 - 00:18:46:13
Mike
So Cynthia, how is the community aspect of the personal development school platform supported you in your journey?

00:18:46:15 - 00:19:08:09
Cynthia
So during my first year, I basically just worked on the courses and I was in the background during most of the webinars. I was still very suspicious and I didn't feel I could trust him. Still a lot of shame related wounds to ask questions too Chinese or join other routines.

00:19:08:09 - 00:19:34:12
Cynthia
I think it was after a year of joining the school that I asked that question and a notice of support of the community was, and it made me feel less alone in my experiences and I think when I work through all my wounds, especially the shame related ones, I started to join other routines and at that time I started to work on communication and it

00:19:34:12 - 00:19:45:11
Cynthia
was really helpful to get insights from other attachment styles. Right? It don't only help my communication, but I also gain more understanding and compassion towards others.

00:19:45:20 - 00:20:07:04
Mike
Write about it and not to embarrass you. This is not embarrassing, but in the communication routine that I run, I was always like so happy that you would attend because you were always one of the ones who are putting your hands up either to volunteer and share what was going on for you, or to offer support and advice and feedback to other people who are sharing.

00:20:07:06 - 00:20:24:20
Mike
So it's really great to watch. You know, at first you might have been nervous and shy, not sharing as much to then feeling safe. And then, like I said, you were one of the people who really stepped up and were providing so much value and helping a lot of the people that were there at the meetings. So I just want to thank you for that.

00:20:24:22 - 00:20:48:22
Cynthia
Yeah. And I think and especially conflict communication AS and your scripts with you was very good for my exposure to work through things. And yeah, I always thought they were minor or something, but it really helped me to have better communication with my neighbor or my landlord.

00:20:48:24 - 00:21:14:06
Mike
I wish we could have a separate podcast about your neighbor. Probably is getting those very differently now. Really. But jokes aside, like you mentioned before about asking questions in the webinars, like for anybody listening, I know it can be really nerve wracking and scary or things like, my questions weird or like strange or whatever, but almost guaranteed.

00:21:14:06 - 00:21:35:13
Mike
The question you asked is going be a lot of people are really happy you asked that question and are really happy. They're getting to hear sort of a case breakdown. You know, the results and what what you should do to, you know, take action and how to sort of help it. So definitely a question asking. I do realize it is nerve wracking at first because some of the webinars are a little bit larger.

00:21:35:13 - 00:21:47:23
Mike
There's there's a pretty decent audience. But as you mentioned, you know, once you do sort of break that vulnerability and ask the question like the value you get back from it is is very great.

00:21:48:02 - 00:22:25:01
Cynthia
So yeah, and I also like to add that I had a lot of shame around having like having a need for romantic relationships and I felt weak and I felt that I didn't need one. And I remember starting to ask questions about my relationships, to tease me, to work through things also, and to ask those things to my own therapist because I was too embarrassed to talk about that.

00:22:25:01 - 00:22:26:14
Cynthia
So like even.

00:22:26:14 - 00:22:30:14
Mike
With a therapist. Yeah. Wow, that's so interesting.

00:22:30:16 - 00:22:31:00
Cynthia
Now.

00:22:31:03 - 00:22:38:12
Mike
And wow, I'm glad you got to sort of bring that to light. That's really great. Yeah.

00:22:38:12 - 00:22:47:03
Mike
So I just want to know, like, I touched on it before, but have you found value in connecting with the other members who are also working on healing their attachment style?

00:22:47:05 - 00:23:14:15
Cynthia
Yeah, I connect less with the community members after like post webinar hangouts, and so I'm in that mostly need to go to bed. I do meet up with a girl who lives in my city where I live. There are very few people with those, therefore avoiding the attachment style or understanding of attachment styles in general. Right? So it's nice to connect with her and talk about the things we're working on.

00:23:14:17 - 00:23:18:04
Cynthia
And I think we're slowly building a friendship now, so it's really nice.

00:23:18:06 - 00:23:30:03
Mike
that's wonderful. I love that. Okay, so are you saying there's no fearful avoidance in your area? Is this an anomaly on the planet? Because I feel like there is a lot of faith everywhere.

00:23:30:05 - 00:23:32:01
Cynthia
Yeah,

00:23:32:01 - 00:24:00:06
Cynthia
I would say every culture kind of leans a bit more avoidant or anxious and good. That's definitely more avoidance. Yes. I think Dutch people are a bit more secure compared to other countries now. And the fortunate thing that you are a wealthy nation and with not a lot of war and capital in the last decade.

00:24:00:10 - 00:24:03:01
Cynthia
Right.

00:24:03:03 - 00:24:23:16
Cynthia
I know. Well, this girl and two other girls who are fearful, avoidant, but like all the others, are mostly either anxious or NDA leaning or secure. Right. So I would say like 50% is secure over here.

00:24:23:17 - 00:24:50:06
Mike
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. It even factor that in like my my mom is born in Finland and I'm pretty sure Finland is like, yeah, the amount of avoidance in Finland showed out to all the Finnish people listening. But for sure there's a lot more avoidance and anxious people in Finland that would be my belief. But you know, maybe we'll take a survey one day and break down all the countries school system.

00:24:50:06 - 00:24:57:19
Cynthia
Maybe that's why so many avoidance learning so, so.

00:24:57:21 - 00:25:08:06
Mike
Good, good, positive spin on it. I like it. So looking back, what would you say has been the most significant lesson that you've learned at the personal development school?

00:25:08:08 - 00:25:20:17
Cynthia
And there are few, but not to second guess. Myself has been so liberating and our kids so much better than I was a few years ago. So I think that's my main number one thing.

00:25:20:22 - 00:25:40:04
Mike
You with that big smile as you're saying that too. So I'm happy you gain that. So how is it learning in the person that I'm in school? We know that it's helped relationships, but just your overall sense of self, what would you say? Where was the growth in overall sense of self?

00:25:40:06 - 00:25:41:07
Cynthia
You

00:25:41:07 - 00:26:12:23
Cynthia
I would say if I'm going to relate this to my relationships, it's and sense of self. I can definitely see I have more intimacy back in the day when shit really hit the fan. I could only rely on two of my closest friends and that was only in desperate times of need. And so being more aware of my emotions really helped me to have a better sense of self, but also have more intimacy with my close friends.

00:26:12:23 - 00:26:35:22
Cynthia
And I wasn't fully letting people in also because I wasn't aware. I wasn't aware that I was protecting myself and building a false. So yeah, being more aware of my emotions and having more a sense of self help me to have more intimacy.

00:26:35:24 - 00:26:37:04
Mike
And that's great.

00:26:37:04 - 00:26:45:21
Mike
Where do you see yourself in your attachment journey in the future? Or how does the personal development school fit into your future?

00:26:45:23 - 00:27:12:23
Cynthia
I think I've mentioned this before already, but there are a few things I'm focusing on at the moment with my therapist and also probably PTSD in the future. I'm I used to oscillate between either codependency or counter dependency and the thing in the middle would be interdependency. I really have said goodbye to my codependency and I'm very proud of it.

00:27:12:23 - 00:27:45:15
Cynthia
But letting go of my hyper independence is still a little bit scary. I used to have a big freeze response and a lot of fear of being close to someone. So I'll be working on building intimacy with more people and I think exposure is probably the best way to go. And like I mentioned before, I still have to do some work on my own mortality, although I'm much better than I was a few years ago.

00:27:45:15 - 00:27:48:00
Cynthia
I can still work on some parts.

00:27:48:02 - 00:27:56:03
Mike
Yes, I definitely. And how would you integrate the lessons you learned from personal development school into your everyday life?

00:27:56:05 - 00:28:25:04
Cynthia
So an example I can think of is my daily workouts. Before I used to exercise to know my thoughts and get dopamine. I was very out of touch with my body and would get injuries without realizing I was stretching myself too far. Now I can focus on my breath and feel how things are feel in my body, so I'm much better at simply processing things now.

00:28:25:04 - 00:28:26:03
Mike
right, great.

00:28:26:03 - 00:28:33:09
Mike
How did you integrate the lessons you've learned from Prince into your relationships to specifically.

00:28:33:11 - 00:29:01:00
Cynthia
So with my colleagues, so it's less intimate. I would say I can speak in the moment, I can set boundaries and if it are really difficult conversations, I can have this sandwich approach. And in my family relationships, I'm not explosive anymore. I can use that sandwich approach as well and I can gently express what I need or tell what what is upsetting me.

00:29:01:00 - 00:29:03:05
Cynthia
So that's.

00:29:03:07 - 00:29:05:22
Mike
Helpful. Yeah, for sure.

00:29:05:22 - 00:29:25:15
Mike
Well, so dear, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your experience and what the journey has been like. I know this is very inspirational for listening. For me listening, just hearing it. It sounds like you've had quite the amount of growth and also seeing it Personally, I get to watch people like you and others grow within the school, which is wonderful.

00:29:25:17 - 00:29:29:24
Mike
So I just want to thank you again for being here and sharing your story with everyone.

00:29:30:01 - 00:29:31:07
Cynthia
Thanks for having me.

00:29:31:09 - 00:29:37:24
Mike
Okay. Thank you. And for everyone listening, thank you for being here again. And as always, good luck on your healing journey.