00;00;00;02 - 00;00;16;04
Madison
What would it look like to actually validate my needs and trust myself and be my own security so that what you do isn't the reason for my emotional safety? Because I have a safe place to land in my own body, in my own life.

00;00;16;10 - 00;00;55;03
Thais
Now below and welcome to the Personal Development School podcast. I am so excited you are here. I am your co-host, Thais Gibson, along with our new special host, Mike Vizio. This is a podcast that discusses everything related to integrated attachment theory, the new attachment theory along with the subconscious mind relationships, communication needs boundaries and so much more. Throughout this podcast, you'll see a series of episodes I upload with new information, educational tips, all about how to thrive in relationships and really master your emotional state in your life.

Along with special guests hosted by Mike DiZio to discuss all of these amazing topics and the longer form content. Thank you so much for being here and I really hope you enjoy this episode.

00;01;10;25 - 00;01;33;01
Mike
My guest today is a life coach and podcast host of the Deep Talk Podcast. She's based in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and is passionate about helping people deepen their understanding to themselves to build better relationships and a deeply fulfilling life. Her coaching focuses around mindset and helping clients make transformations in their love life. Personal development school podcast watchers and Listeners.

00;01;33;02 - 00;01;38;00
Mike
I'd like to introduce Madison Branch. Hey, how you doing today?

00;01;38;02 - 00;01;40;19
Madison
I'm good. How are you? How is the date then?

00;01;40;23 - 00;01;43;05
Mike
Pretty good. Pretty good. Better now that you're here.

00;01;43;05 - 00;01;45;29
Madison
So I love it. I love it.

00;01;46;02 - 00;01;53;09
Mike
And you're just sharing how you're not usually on this side of the podcast chair. So it's a treat to interview you.

00;01;53;11 - 00;02;01;29
Madison
Oh, thank you. Yeah, I would just, like, it's always. I'm like, I want to ask you questions. I was pretty funny receiving and answering, so I love it. It's great.

00;02;02;03 - 00;02;04;02
Mike
You're the starter today. Perfect.

00;02;04;05 - 00;02;05;05
Madison
I love it.

00;02;05;07 - 00;02;13;00
Mike
So just just hearing from our viewers here, if anybody doesn't know you, I thought if you could just spend a few moments letting us know who you are, what you do, and maybe a bit of your backstory.

00;02;13;02 - 00;02;33;05
Madison
I'm Madison, Madison Brand and a life coach. Again, I have a podcast and I really focus a lot on coaching people around dating and relationships. I'm really passionate about human connection and knowing ourselves better and learning about ourselves and healing so we can build better relationships to other people. And yeah, again, create a life that really feels worth living and really fulfilling.

00;02;33;05 - 00;02;41;03
Madison
And so yeah, that's a little bit more about me back story. Oh my goodness. I'm like, Do you have the time?

00;02;41;06 - 00;02;59;27
Madison
Kind of a weird path to getting here. I grew up wanting to be a makeup artist and actually went to school in New York to do that. And when I was there, I had like a little Quarterlife crisis. I was like, This isn't the lifestyle that I want. I love making people feel beautiful, but I feel like there's a piece of that that felt not deep enough for me.

00;03;00;04 - 00;03;19;00
Madison
And when I was out there, I started my podcast and ended up kind of having this winding road to getting where I am now, which is I got really into wellness when I was there in school, spent the last few years after that, getting into yoga and wellness and got my coaching certification and I kind of spiraled into where I am now.

00;03;19;00 - 00;03;38;09
Madison
So it was a very long, a few years of just figuring myself out and what I wanted to do, which I'm sure you probably had yourself to, of just knowing who you are and what you want to do. But yeah, that's kind of an overview of how I got here. But yeah, it's a, it's a weird one. Yeah.

00;03;38;12 - 00;03;57;01
Mike
I've never heard the term quarter life crisis before. I thought it was always just midlife crisis, but I like that as well. I can say I had that as well too. It was kind of mid twenties where I felt like I wasn't happy and I needed to make a change. So thanks for sharing that story. So you're the creator and host of the Deep Talk podcast.

00;03;57;02 - 00;04;02;15
Mike
What was your inspiration to start the podcast and what are some of the main things that you cover on your podcast?

00;04;02;18 - 00;04;17;03
Madison
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I started it when I was in school and I kind of started it because again, with my quarter life crisis, I was like, This would be a great way to interview people and hear what people are doing that's a little bit creative and out of the box to kind of just learn what other people are doing.

00;04;17;03 - 00;04;35;22
Madison
Because I at that time I didn't know, but I was like, I know I want to do something different. And there's also kind of a way to express myself and learn more about myself. I really learned. I like speaking. So it's kind of a combination of those things. When I was doing it and interviewing all these people, I was like, Oh my goodness, this can be a career, You can do podcast, you can do life goals, you can do all these things.

00;04;35;25 - 00;05;04;14
Madison
So it's so funny that what I was using to find something ended up kind of being the thing. But yeah, that's what I kind of started as and now it's just a lot of interviews. I switch off of doing what I'm doing myself and interviewing people and it's all self-help. My social media is a lot more focused on dating and relationships, but I feel like my podcast is expansive, so all the necessary ingredients to building a fulfilling life, dating relationships and career and purpose and self-help mindset are all the fundamentals of that self work.

00;05;04;16 - 00;05;18;05
Madison
And yeah, I feel like I call that the detox because I feel like everyone in my life is always like, Do we need to have a detox like this right here, right now? I'm like, What else is there to say? So it's funny, but yeah, that's a little bit more about the podcast and yeah.

00;05;18;07 - 00;05;36;27
Mike
Yeah, I love that. Like so many things about that. Even doing this for a while. So I think probably one of the reasons why I've done this for a while is because you're meeting so many needs while you're doing it. You love this part. I know myself, I love deep, meaningful conversation and personal development. So really what you're doing is like a labor of love.

00;05;37;03 - 00;06;04;07
Mike
You're enjoying it. So it probably doesn't feel like, you know, Oh, I got to do another podcast. You're enjoying every episode and doing what you would be doing anyway with your friends or, you know, anybody else, even if you weren't doing the podcast. So I really love that. And we always encourage people if you know, you have a need for a meaningful connection and people say, I can't, you know, I can't seem to get that, bring it to you, start a podcast to meet up group, do stuff where you're bringing the deep conversation to yourself.

00;06;04;12 - 00;06;09;19
Mike
So I commend you on that. And it seems like you have a lot of fun when you do it.

00;06;09;21 - 00;06;26;13
Madison
Yeah, I resonate so much with all of that that you say, I had a girl on my podcast a few weeks ago. We were talking about like this concept of a concept of bringing intimacy into your life and that a lot of people feel lonely, not because of like the amount of people, but because they're not having like deep and meaningful conversations.

00;06;26;13 - 00;06;46;29
Madison
And I think that obviously I have friends in my life that I do that with. But you know, the people that I have on my podcast, you know, they just reach a different level. They do this for their life, their career, their purpose. And so having conversations with people that are like that often, it's just it's it fills me up so much and it fuels purpose into my life and the depth and I learn so much.

00;06;46;29 - 00;07;05;10
Madison
I'm always talking to like interesting people and developing myself. It's like self work in its own. It's it's great. And I think anything that you do for a long time and are consistent with, especially when you start and do it for free for a long time to start, it has to be something that you care about. And what better than to talk to cool people?

00;07;05;10 - 00;07;28;29
Mike
That's I love it. And you write a lot of people, you know, sometimes you're you're lonely, you're missing that intimacy and you might have a lot of friends, but it's way more beneficial to sort of deepen the intimate relationship with smaller groups of people, improving your close relationships than trying to kind of water it down with like a whole bunch of different people on the big guy as well.

00;07;29;04 - 00;07;44;04
Mike
So in your own life, like for your own personal growth journey or healing journey, did you have like a rock bottom moment, a catalyst, or did you meet someone who, like really pushed you into being like, I want to do my own healing and I need to sort of dive into that sort of headfirst?

00;07;44;06 - 00;08;00;28
Madison
Yeah, I think more into my I feel like my New York experience was like its own thing, but it also tied into so many other parts of my, like healing because I struggle with mental health my whole life. You know, I grew up with a lot of anxiety and that was the first time when I got there and experienced a lot of depression.

00;08;00;28 - 00;08;26;13
Madison
I think purpose is tied to depression a lot when you kind of lose that grounding. I was like, I don't care about anything and stop caring. Yeah, I struggled a ton with depression there and ended up when I transferred, came home and just had years of just really, really struggling, getting on medication, all of the things. And so that was kind of my quote unquote rock bottom, just like a real switch in who I thought that I was.

00;08;26;13 - 00;08;48;04
Madison
And I think that's how yeah, tied in with my own mental health struggles and everything kind of came to a head there. And I realize I was like, well, starting my podcast and kind of learning about stuff, I was like, Oh my goodness, you can listen to podcasts and read books and help yourself. And so that's me getting out of my own anxiety, depression.

00;08;48;07 - 00;09;04;06
Madison
All the things that I was struggling with was my own journey to everything that I do now, which is so cool. But that's what helped me dive into my healing of just being like, I need to get out of this and to learn as much as I can, read all the books, podcasts, do everything which kind of build your own well of knowledge.

00;09;04;06 - 00;09;21;00
Madison
And I think that what you feel with yourself kind of becomes like the medicine that you can give to others through coaching practice, through just day to day life with the people that you love, like how you support and help others. And so, yeah, it's so crazy that the hardest, most like dark times in my life. And it's so weird to be able to, like, encapsulate that like this.

00;09;21;00 - 00;09;38;27
Madison
Like, let me be able to, like, smile and talk about this when it was so hard, so long. But it's so crazy how the hardest part of my life is like the reason why I do what I do. Okay, The mental health struggles, all the hardest things is actually like why I've learned everything and why I have the career that I have.

00;09;38;27 - 00;09;45;25
Madison
And it's kind of it's crazy. It's yeah, I never would have thought, but yeah, it's.

00;09;45;28 - 00;10;03;17
Mike
That's and I imagine and I've heard this from a lot of people and I can say this for myself too. I wouldn't trade those dark days and awful, awful depressions and anxieties for anything because it wouldn't have led me to doing all this inner work and healing and understanding myself and the subconscious mind and all those kind of things.

00;10;03;17 - 00;10;10;11
Mike
So I imagine you're sort of the same where you're like, Yeah, it wasn't fun, but I wouldn't trade it for the world, right?

00;10;10;13 - 00;10;26;26
Madison
No, I mean, I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it's when you're going through it, it's that it's like, yeah, it's horrible and you never think it's going to get better and you feel completely alone. And, you know, I think you're also your own, your own person. So your struggles are very different than anyone else and that feels lonely.

00;10;26;26 - 00;10;42;28
Madison
And so it's just the whole thing is hard. But I would no, I wouldn't trade it for anything because it's definitely like the catalyst to where I am now, which is crazy. It's crazy, but I think that that's a great way to find your passions is look at where your struggles are exactly.

00;10;43;01 - 00;11;00;22
Mike
And I think guess on purpose. It makes so much sense if you're doing things that are completely opposite of what your purpose is. You can imagine everything inside of it if you're like is like, What are you doing? We want to do this thing. This is what makes us happy. But instead we're forcing ourselves to do something like 40, 50 hours a week that we just do not like.

00;11;00;22 - 00;11;14;07
Mike
Can we? You know, sucks this all out of us and it just makes sense. So really doing things on purpose and that light you up is so important. Otherwise it's almost inevitable that you're going to go into a depression or, you know, suffer for it.

00;11;14;07 - 00;11;32;28
Madison
And I feel like growing up, my mom always thought it was so funny because I would always be doing a project. I always had something I was interested in. I think someone who struggles with mental health and, you know, being quote unquote, neurodivergent, I guess I think that I find with myself, if I don't have something that I'm working on that lights me up and that is purposeful.

00;11;33;01 - 00;11;49;15
Madison
If I didn't have all of this, I think I would be still depressed. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think, like purpose is sometimes like the antidote of depression, of really finding what makes you feel alive and want to get up every day. And so.

00;11;49;19 - 00;11;54;06
Mike
Yeah, totally. Well said. I start reading, Want to get out of bed? You know, for sure.

00;11;54;08 - 00;11;58;17
Madison
Yeah, I got a film you got to get. Cause I'm like.

00;11;58;19 - 00;12;23;24
Mike
So we're talking about adoption style. I know that before you were sort of anxious, preoccupied, attachment style. I know you've done a lot of work about on that. I was just wondering, what were some of the hardest things when you were the most anxious, preoccupied while dating or in relationships? And then can you give us a few tips on sort of how you how you heal that and how you sort of became a little more secure in dating relationships and all that?

00;12;23;27 - 00;12;44;29
Madison
I think that it's it's weird because I know that, like, attachment dolls are created from childhood. I look back on like, I don't remember having a childhood where anything was necessarily wrong. So it's very fascinating. Why have I been so anxious in these relationships? But in every single relationship, romantic relationship I was in, and even sometimes that experience a touch in close friendships.

00;12;44;29 - 00;13;13;07
Madison
But in those romantic relationships, it's like any time there was like any pulling away any like inconsistency, especially of like texting or all those things I had, like this is such a big body response. And for anyone who I don't know if you struggle with an attachment style or people can relate, but like for anxious, like it was just any of those moments, I just had this crazy anxious feelings in my body and they were so hard to cope with.

00;13;13;09 - 00;13;29;12
Madison
Right? I feel a little bit crazy because I was like, I know underneath this I'm a healthy, insecure person, but I can't this feeling my body is so strong. I would literally take naps during the day like, although like I would like when I was dating, people were like, This is so overwhelming. Yeah, I need to sleep. This off.

00;13;29;12 - 00;13;32;06
Madison
Like if somebody was not responding for a super long time.

00;13;32;08 - 00;13;48;23
Mike
And so I'd interject. I'm just not like the avoidant side of things. So this is whenever I hear about this, I heard from talked to many apps and it's always fascinating, but it's almost like a panic type feeling where you're like, Oh my God, you know, that feeling where you're panicking like something really bad is happening right now?

00;13;48;26 - 00;13;59;07
Mike
Is it kind of like that? And also where where in the body did you experience it Most Some people talk about the chest or maybe the neck. Is that was there any localized area where this would always show up.

00;13;59;09 - 00;14;22;15
Madison
Right above my bellybutton, like kind of that upper stomach grip of your chest kind of area, just like this tight, like anxious, I would say a panic attack energy, but just like this tight, overwhelming feeling. There's just so it's such a dysregulation and the inability to sit still and be with yourself and I think it's because you make you've made this person the thing that makes you feel stable.

00;14;22;15 - 00;14;38;14
Madison
So when they're not available to you all the time or providing that consistency because I mean, there's more times when people are busy or whatever, you know, you freak out and it feels so crazy to say those things because I don't feel any of that now, which we're going to do. Like I really have that at all now.

00;14;38;15 - 00;15;00;23
Madison
But yeah, it just it was miserable dating people and I honestly felt like the most emotional, stable, sick version of myself in relationships, which was like I stopped dating for because, like, I was like, this is miserable. And I'm fascinated by avoidance, too. But I think we're we both both sides want love, but both sides have these ways to cope with these emotions that we're feeling for sure.

00;15;00;26 - 00;15;23;01
Mike
Did you find in dating you had to almost hide it or try to tone it down because you're like, Oh my God, Like my partner is going to be so worried if he sees how worked up I get when I don't answer a text message or I don't phone back right away, would you find there was a bit of shame or a little bit of like worry that your partner wouldn't find that attractive or, you know, becoming.

00;15;23;04 - 00;15;40;28
Madison
Oh, totally. I always felt like I had to hide it and I also feel like I dated a lot of avoidant people, which we know is not helpful. Right? But yeah, I felt so ashamed and I felt like there's something wrong with me and some people I felt like I could talk to about it a little bit and just be like letting you know and kind of like sharing.

00;15;40;28 - 00;16;02;24
Madison
Like sometimes it helps to have validation or This is why I act this way sometimes. But there's other people that are not, you know, I didn't feel as comfortable with. So yeah, I kind of depended. But yeah, I definitely feel shame. And it just it's, it's like this part of you that isn't you, but it is you. And yeah, when I was going through, it was like a big part of my life for a while where I was like, I need to hear all this.

00;16;02;26 - 00;16;15;01
Madison
But I was looking at my journal the other day and I remember, like for a year I was like, I hope my goal at the end of the year to not have this anymore. Like, I can't do it anymore. I have to work on this. But yeah.

00;16;15;04 - 00;16;27;21
Mike
And that's amazing that you gave yourself that gift to be like, enough is enough. And we got to work on this and you want to touch on was there any sort of methods or like certain things you did that really helped along the process?

00;16;27;23 - 00;16;43;00
Madison
Oh my gosh. I feel like the reason why I share so much about this is because, again, that lived experience, I feel like I can give like the exact methods like I shared on my social media. I'm like, This is exactly what I would do because it's the only thing that works for me. But it's a few things, I think.

00;16;43;03 - 00;17;00;18
Madison
Well, part of it is just growing up and getting more comfortable with yourself. A lot of people I was dating when I was younger, where me choosing the worst partners ever. I think I'm all about self work, but I think that there's a point where it's not only you, it's also important to be like, Who am I choosing?

00;17;00;23 - 00;17;26;00
Madison
Because I was choosing unavailable people who are avoidant so you can heal in relationships. And I think that's how you can really heal your attachment style. But you, you doing that with somebody who's always running away from you and not providing you with safety and security and unavailable to you prolongs the cycle. And so for me, I was just dating a bunch of unavailable men constantly and like keeping my attachment style.

00;17;26;00 - 00;17;52;11
Madison
And so a big part of my healing was, you know, one, the awareness of it and doing my own work and understanding where it's originated, kind of looking at my patterns to building my own life, really having a life that was separate from somebody that I could call my own friends hobbies, a grounded space. And then three, really choosing people who were emotionally available, secure, not avoidant.

00;17;52;11 - 00;18;10;07
Madison
I would really recommend anyone read the book attached to really understand more about why it's important to not have worried and anxious together unless you're both really willing to work together. But data secure people who are available. I would be dating people that I was like, I never feel comfortable bothering them with things. Sometimes it's like a real partner to you and you know is going to be there.

00;18;10;07 - 00;18;26;12
Madison
Because I found that when you have somebody that you know is consistent and there you don't feel the need to have all this anxiousness and stress. But when someone's not, you feel like you need them all the time. So I can feel that with my friends, the people that I know are just there. I'm the most chill with.

00;18;26;14 - 00;19;00;06
Madison
But I think really focusing on finding somebody secure. And so it's just so long. But the last place I would touch on is the nervous system, which I think is so important. It's like you can do stuff on your own. I think cold baths, some like cold therapy and doing like your own self-soothing techniques. But like in a healthy relationship, when you get triggered again, hopefully it's with a secure partner using those moments to learn how to calm yourself and also work with your partner if they're available to comfortable that kind of a thing to be able to in those moments be like, okay, it's actually fine.

00;19;00;12 - 00;19;27;22
Madison
And over time, every time I get triggered, it gets less and less and you learn to trust more and your nervous system doesn't freak out as much. And yeah, it's it's almost like a touch of trauma on your body that you're kind of healing over time by like having those little just regulations and in those moments like soothing again and again and again until your nervous system rebuilds strength and that's pretty much helped me like dating people who are secure and working through it over time with them or by myself.

00;19;27;22 - 00;19;44;11
Madison
But I'm a nervous system. I feel like a so strong if I'm dating and I'm like, Oh, they're unavailable. I don't touch it. I run so far. But if they are available on their secure and never feel anxiety anymore. So that's my long winded healing method.

00;19;44;14 - 00;20;16;21
Mike
Although again, there's so many good things in there. I just wanted to comment on one of the things which is really important that we know for apps and you touched now with number two, where you have to cultivate your own life and purpose and things outside of the relationship, outside of someone else. If you're not doing the things that make you happy and bring you your own joy and you're solely focused on the other person, you're going to be self abandoning all the time and choosing what they want to do, choosing what they want to talk about, choosing what they want to, where they want to go on vacation.

00;20;16;21 - 00;20;36;28
Mike
You're just going to abandon yourself over and over and over just to keep this person in your life. And it's just such a disservice because everybody has so much to offer the world. And when you don't sort of step into you and your own gifts and what you're here for, it's it's just really sad. And, you know, you're almost like squandering a beautiful thing.

00;20;37;01 - 00;20;55;03
Mike
So we do know that you do need to get back to that relationship with your self and start asking yourself what makes me happy, what makes me tick, not, you know, how do I stay happy with my partner? How do I keep them happy? So it's it's more of that inner focus which you touched on.

00;20;55;06 - 00;21;13;12
Madison
Yeah, I feel like I. Yeah, it's. You have to not make them like, your center point I guess, of like your grounding. That's like kind of coming back to you and be like, okay, I am like the, the center point of my life, like, and validate yourself and your needs because you're constantly banning yourself. Were like, I don't, my needs don't matter.

00;21;13;19 - 00;21;33;14
Madison
I remember be like, Oh, you can hang out today. I'll cancel my plans like all these things so I can feel safe and not anxious. And it's like, okay, well, what would it look like to actually validate my needs and trust myself and be my own security so that what you do isn't the reason for my emotional safety?

00;21;33;15 - 00;21;38;08
Madison
Because I have a safe place to land in my own body, in my own life now.

00;21;38;11 - 00;22;05;09
Mike
And maybe this is my avoidant side saying, but like nobody's going to be there forever. Sadly, breakups happen, people pass away. Just so many different things happen. So of course you want to like nurture and make sure your relationships in a good place, but also nurture yourself because you're with yourself. 24 seven 365 until the finish line. That other person can be here for a week or a month, ten years or, you know, up until the day you die.

00;22;05;09 - 00;22;16;19
Mike
But knowing that you have to really, you know, put that into your self and not over give and again self abandon because you never you never know what's going to happen.

00;22;16;22 - 00;22;34;09
Madison
Exactly. I remember talking to one of my friends when I was going through this, and she was like, I think when you get to the point where you are so fine losing them or anybody in your life because you know that you can handle it because you're your own landing point versus somebody else. But that's when you know you've healed a lot.

00;22;34;10 - 00;22;51;07
Madison
Because now when I date people, I'm like, Oh, it's okay if you leave now, you're just and that's not to say that you're not excited or that you're not, you know, you care, but it's a healthy detachment because you're like, if it's not you, it's going to be someone else. But regardless, I still get to have my love story.

00;22;51;07 - 00;22;55;03
Madison
I still get to be happy. Yeah, that has nothing to do with you.

00;22;55;03 - 00;23;06;17
Mike
I'm not going to put you in a cage and be like you have to be with me. If it's just not working out, that's okay. Well, we'll respectfully, you know, go our separate ways and I'll be fine. And. And that's not so self love.

00;23;06;17 - 00;23;29;05
Madison
It's like I self worth it's like I you know, I think the last thing I'll say about this whole, you know, it's just like I think when you can be like, even if what I need in a relationship or who I am, how I shop is, looks different than other people, I have to at one point be honest about the fact that that's who I am and validate that and then date around that and live my life around that.

00;23;29;10 - 00;23;48;21
Madison
You need more communication. Or if you're someone who needs certain things or a certain type of person, when you can really just be like, Oh, that is who I am, and I'm not going to change for you because that's not going to work out. It's just it's just not like, let's be logical to really validate yourself and your needs and who you are can bring relationships into your life that actually honor that.

00;23;48;21 - 00;23;54;22
Madison
And then you can kind of just detach from the outcome because you're like, Well, I get to show up how I decide to show up.

00;23;54;25 - 00;23;59;08
Mike
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful people. It is there.

00;23;59;10 - 00;24;21;19
Thais
To welcome it to our personal development school free attachment style test. If you have less than 3 minutes, really it usually takes to build this test. We have a few questions for you to help you really determine exactly your attachment style and even the breakdown. So if you're leaning a certain direction, if you have a secondary attachment style, it will help break all of this down for you.

00;24;21;21 - 00;24;51;03
Thais
Essentially, the quiz is here at the the Personal Development School website. You just click attachment style test at the top. And there are a series of questions here that you can take. And as you go through the questions, you will see that by the end of this, you actually have the ability to obtain a free report. There's a tremendous amount of detail in that report in terms of what your attachment style is, what different patterns you have, wounds, fears, needs that are going to be important for you to navigate relationships, the best ways to learn, to emotionally regulate.

00;24;51;05 - 00;25;09;04
Thais
And we even talk about some of the relationship you might have to your boundaries or patterns of communication, action and activating or deactivating strategies. So there's a tremendous amount of information will help you break everything down. It's a great quiz for you to take or for you to seek with a loved one with a partner, with a friend who may also be curious about what their attachment style is.

00;25;09;07 - 00;25;24;11
Thais
You'll see at the end you get a full report, and if you decide to submit your email, we actually email a really detailed report, even more so than on the landing page to your inbox. So I hope you check it out. I hope you enjoy and can't wait to see how your attachment style learning journey goes.

00;25;24;13 - 00;25;47;07
Mike
My next question touches kind of on number three, and you have a podcast episode called Breaking the Cycle of emotionally Unavailable People. So I was wondering if you could first let us know, like, what are some signs that people might want to look out for, for someone who's emotionally unavailable? Because I don't think it's always super obvious and maybe give us a bit of an explanation of how to break that cycle.

00;25;47;09 - 00;26;03;03
Madison
Yeah, I think emotionally unavailable is really tied into like the anxious attachments that like why it's so important to not choose those types of people signs. I think that emotionally unavailable people want to feel like they're pretty antique middle are uncomfortable with conversations about yeah making not.

00;26;03;04 - 00;26;04;29
Mike
Even one of the conversation.

00;26;05;01 - 00;26;24;10
Madison
Yeah yeah they run away from that. They run away from intimacy and like connective conversations, talking about emotions, things that are further than the surface or just like physical. I think a lot of times emotionally unavailable people are looking for relationships or I always feel like they're looking for the benefits of the connection without the responsibility. That's like my quote.

00;26;24;11 - 00;26;31;07
Madison
I always say that they enjoy the connection, but they don't want to be there when it's not convenient for them.

00;26;31;09 - 00;26;32;21
Mike
To.

00;26;32;23 - 00;26;54;03
Madison
Literally, literally. And that's not to say that emotionally unavailable people are bad. I've been emotionally unavailable in my life where I've been out of a relationship and needing space and couldn't commit. And I think there but there's an important ability to understand, Oh, I'm unavailable right now. I'm not going to go jump in the dating world and give people my unavailability, make people, you know, tied in with that.

00;26;54;03 - 00;27;07;18
Madison
I'm going to actually step back, which is what I've done of like healing and being able to not go to the dating world with my problems, but yeah, those are some signs. And I was at the question like how to break the cycle I guess. Yeah.

00;27;07;18 - 00;27;17;04
Mike
Yeah. How to sort if you if you find yourself, you're always kind of getting emotional available people maybe something that could help with breaking that cycle.

00;27;17;06 - 00;27;35;06
Madison
Yeah, I dated the same person with a different face for five years. I'm mostly unavailable after emotionally unavailable person because I think your body, I think so much of attraction comes from what you know, and it was just in cycles like, well, this is, this is normal that they don't want to do me. This is normal that it's so hard.

00;27;35;13 - 00;27;54;27
Madison
And I think at some point, take a pause, realize that as annoying as unavailable people are might be to you and how frustrating it is. You're the picker, you're the common denominator. And that's the hard thing is when you finally take that pause and realize, Oh, maybe it's me, maybe I'm fueling the continuation of these people in my life, What does that mean about me?

00;27;54;27 - 00;28;20;22
Madison
I'm emotionally unavailable. Am I not comfortable with real love? Really? Looking at yourself might not be aware enough to really see what's going on in these relationships. And so I think my best tip is to one look at yourself and to take things really slow and get to know people and look at the signs. And it doesn't mean you have to be obnoxiously hyper vigilant, but like you can date people and be like, okay, they don't want to do conversations, they don't want to commit.

00;28;20;24 - 00;28;42;17
Madison
Next, just giving yourself a slow time to really see those signs and knowing that that's how they are, that's okay. But you can still have what you want. A relationship. I think I was hyper aware about my own patterns and how I was dating until it became subconscious. With anything, you're really focusing on it until you're like, I stopped being attracted to those people all together, until it kind of changes.

00;28;42;21 - 00;28;43;12
Madison
Yeah.

00;28;43;15 - 00;29;02;22
Mike
Totally. Yeah. Like taking accountability for you. Being the constant is a tough thing to do, you know, like to to take a good hard look and be like, Hey, it seems like the same thing keeps happening over and over. And I could blame it on all this guy was a jerk or this girl was a narcissist or like always kind of point the finger outwards.

00;29;02;24 - 00;29;21;21
Mike
But if you take a long, hard look, there's probably going to be some patterns in each person that you dated. And I like how you put it, was like the same person with different faith. And I really think it's not until you do that and you sort of figure out what your role is. And so creating this type of relationship over and over and over, I think you can't heal.

00;29;21;21 - 00;29;41;12
Mike
So it's uncomfortable and it's not fun and it's easier to sort of point fingers and talk to your friends and be like, Oh, this person was such a jerk. And your friends like, I know, I know, mean he's toxic, but really, you really have to look at your own sort of patterns of behavior and why you're choosing those kind of people and why you're putting up with that kind of stuff.

00;29;41;14 - 00;29;45;16
Mike
But yeah, those are some great tips on on identifying that. So I appreciate that.

00;29;45;18 - 00;30;17;16
Madison
Yeah, I saw this post that girl posted like a few weeks ago where she was like, It's not that you attract emotional, unavailable people like they go everywhere. It's choosing them, you know, choosing to let that stay. And so, you know, if you can realize you're not attracting them, you're attracted and that you're choosing them, then you can be like, okay, well, what is it going to take for me to shift that attraction by like, I know this might sound weird, but like really being open to like a different type and trying to date different people, you know, like being like, okay, this person is really interested in me.

00;30;17;16 - 00;30;20;07
Madison
That's really gross to me, but I'm going to try it anyway.

00;30;20;10 - 00;30;27;14
Mike
I'm going to sit through all this and like to see how it feels after a while instead of just like running away right away.

00;30;27;17 - 00;30;34;05
Madison
Yeah. Everything in life. I just posted, I think the other day, I was like, you can, like, handle, like, discomfort. Then you can do anything.

00;30;34;12 - 00;30;51;24
Mike
Yeah, sure, sure, sure. So for all the single people out there who are in the dating world, online dating, all that stuff, you have a podcast on dating mindfully as well. What are some tips people can use to sort of navigate the dating world in the best possible way?

00;30;51;26 - 00;31;16;03
Madison
I think the dating world, like I was saying before, it's kind of crazy. Like, I think there's a lot of people out there who are looking for things. There's a lot of people out there who are unavailable or whatever. But I think that the most important thing you can do, because, you know, whether you're on dating apps, whether you're out in the world, there's so much out there that I think the most important thing to do is be sure who you are, be sure who you want, because the only constant that we ever have in life is what we can control.

00;31;16;03 - 00;31;36;27
Madison
And if we can, you know, if you're single right now and you're looking for a partner, it's kind of like, well, it's my side of the street clean. Am I, you know, working on my healing? Am I getting clear on what I want? My patterns. I follow the angry therapist. I love him. And I think what he was saying when he was single for like a few years, he was like, this is the best time to cultivate knowing yourself so that when someone does come along.

00;31;37;02 - 00;31;57;21
Madison
Yes. Ready? Not to say that you can't get ready in a relationship because you can, but if you are no longer now it's like, Well, I think I can look at a lot of my friends. Some are single because they're thriving in the single season, but I would say most of my friends who are single are healing and working on their own patterns, and that's why they're not in a relationship or a healthy relationship is because they have work to do.

00;31;57;28 - 00;32;16;09
Madison
And you know, we all have work to do. So I think that's really important is to get clear on you and your healing and what you need and deserve and desire. And then I would just say, go out, do the things that you love because that's where you're going to shine and meet like minded people. I joined a lifting group a few years ago because I was like, This is a great way to meet men.

00;32;16;13 - 00;32;31;19
Madison
And then I went there and I was like, I hated it and quit really, really quick after. And I'm like, if you don't, don't do things just to meet people, do things that clubs with the hope to meet people because you're not going to have staying power to be somewhere. If you don't love it, you're not going to glow the same way.

00;32;31;19 - 00;32;57;18
Madison
So be open. Do things you love. Dating apps are always a good tool to use, and I think the most important is just to be itself compassionate. You know, I think that dating can be hard, especially if you're looking for a long term partner or quote unquote, the one. It's a lot that you're looking for in a person to be compassionate with yourself and to be messy and to, you know, not be too hard on yourself if you're doing what you can do.

00;32;57;21 - 00;33;14;11
Mike
Yeah, I know that if I get out of myself, I would say you don't have so much expectations because I get really nervous about dating sometimes. And I'm like, Oh, I don't want to go. And this is going to be awkward and uncomfortable and I'm going to be nervous. And, you know, so now they're just talking myself out of it.

00;33;14;13 - 00;33;34;10
Mike
And when I went in with the mindset of, Listen, just get out there, go on a few dates, have fun, and don't have this expectation of like, oh, I need I need this person to like me and I need to, you know, impress them or whatever. I just sort of treat it as you're going for a coffee or doing something with a new human who you've never met and you get to learn about them and they get to learn about you.

00;33;34;12 - 00;33;57;28
Mike
And you know what? If it doesn't work out, I would have been at home watching cat videos for the last 2 hours. So instead I got in the house and got to interact with another person. And best case scenario, you guys hit it off and then you go on another date, win, win. And if it doesn't go well again, you got to get out of the house and meet someone and probably even understand, okay, this is what I probably didn't, you know, like about this person or I thought something I didn't like.

00;33;58;01 - 00;34;15;29
Mike
You could sort of like, break it down after. But for me, it's just getting out there and just not you're not you're not going to meet someone. Obviously front from your own house. You have to get up and just lower your expectations and start out to be like, you know what? I'm going to have some fun if I meet someone awesome, If I don't, that's that's fine as well.

00;34;16;01 - 00;34;32;14
Madison
Yeah. My mom would always say back in the day when I was like dating a man, she was like, You're so focused on how you're feeling and do I like them? But not that that's not important. But she's just like, be in the conversation, like, get to know a human being and stop sitting there being like, Oh, I'm so worried about myself.

00;34;32;20 - 00;34;51;05
Madison
And then they're like, Do I like the feeling in the conversation and get to know human? And it's nerve racking for everyone. I don't I don't know anyone who can go on a first date and feels no anxiety if you do that, it's awesome. But I think there's a humbleness and beauty to me. Like, yeah, it's a little nerve wracking to meet a new person, but that's okay.

00;34;51;05 - 00;35;03;09
Madison
I'm going to show up, get to know someone and just be like, I'm so self confidence. Like I'm great. And, you know, I, I'm, I love myself. Regardless of how this guy was exactly.

00;35;03;15 - 00;35;04;20
Mike
Exactly.

00;35;04;22 - 00;35;05;25
Madison
Yeah.

00;35;05;28 - 00;35;07;05
Mike
Your mom's a wise person.

00;35;07;05 - 00;35;08;24
Madison
If she is. I know she's listening.

00;35;08;28 - 00;35;29;04
Mike
The last go to Madison's mom picks out. So. Okay, this leads me to my other question. So in one of your Instagram posts, the oppose the questions, Will I be bored in a healthy relationship? I know a lot of people in the community talk about when they're going through their healing, especially a fearful avoidance. Who are you? So like chaos in that emotional up and down.

00;35;29;06 - 00;35;47;00
Mike
And once they've started healing, they might have started dating a secure person and find it really boring and they're like, Oh, what is going on here? So I was wanted to get to speak to that. Why do you think this happens and why is it not a bad thing to feel boredom sometimes in a relationship?

00;35;47;02 - 00;36;11;23
Madison
This question I don't know if you've thought about it personally, but it literally made me crazy for so long because I was like, How are you supposed to feel? Because you kind of go through these relationships. I think actually when you're younger, struggling with attachment styles or whatever, like the highs and the lows, right? You have something that's like super exciting and like oftentimes when it's toxic, it's like they give you attention, you feel great, and then they pulled away and you're in a low and you're up and down.

00;36;11;23 - 00;36;32;22
Madison
And I think, again, attach ourselves, we're kind of wired into this. You feel safe and secure, and then they are really distant from you, maybe if they're avoidant. But I think that high and low kind of creates this huge rushes of emotions and these big feelings. I was watching the movie I've ever seen. It's so bad, but it's on Netflix, It's called After and it's like that Wattpad film.

00;36;32;22 - 00;36;54;06
Madison
They made a movie. They're like, they're the most toxic couple. They go from like hating each other to I'm in love with you. And I'm like, You're glorifying the most toxic, unhealthy relationship. Yeah. And that's like what our eyes are cue towards. It's like it's supposed to be bright lights of passion and, like, toxicity and flame. And yeah, I've been in a relationship like that where it feels like you feel everything.

00;36;54;06 - 00;37;20;25
Madison
It's amazing, but it's also so unhealthy and it's crazy. And so I think when I realized I was like, Oh, that's actually not what I want. Maybe there's pieces in there, but to find someone who's an actual partner for you and the kind of person that's sustainable and will last a lifetime and be there with you if you go through really hard times, is the kind of person that maybe isn't so hot and heavy right away or that is so up and down.

00;37;20;28 - 00;37;38;04
Madison
And I think the part about being bored is I think that that word bother me for a long time because I was like, I don't think you're going to be bored when you meet someone who is not going to not like them or not be said. You're still going to excited, but it's not going to trigger these crazy sparks or anxiety feelings.

00;37;38;04 - 00;38;01;00
Madison
I almost feel like it's more like you'd meet someone and have a little butterflies and be like serious and excited and want to know more. And that feeling builds over time, which might feel boring because you're like, It's not so crazy. But I actually think that it builds a deeper love and a different type of excitement that feels safe, secure, which might feel boring because it's not so up and down.

00;38;01;07 - 00;38;20;08
Madison
But I think that when you do your own healing work, you can. It's still so exciting to do like somebody. It just might feel boring in comparison or there might be times where you dated for a while and you're like, Oh, we're just we're just you're in silence. There's no fighting like dope. But like, I think it's just a different feeling in the body.

00;38;20;08 - 00;38;26;21
Madison
A lighter feeling that grows over time. But it's still there can still be so exciting and so much more rewarding.

00;38;26;24 - 00;38;50;05
Mike
It's developing a new comfort zone. It's your comfort zone. Before I was with an emotional rollercoaster. That's where you show what feels normal. So then it's just an abnormal feeling to have this sort of peacefulness. But I think it is something with time that you start to be like, Hey, this is really, really nice. Not having these big fights and dramas and hating each other and making up and breaking up and getting back together.

00;38;50;13 - 00;39;05;00
Mike
So it is nice. And you know, something that you need to again, it might be uncomfortable at first, but just because something is uncomfortable, it doesn't mean you should run away from it. It's like sit with it and, you know, feel it and try to make it your sort of new normal.

00;39;05;02 - 00;39;20;25
Madison
Yeah. My therapist always said to me, she's like, Your blueprint for dating is so much different than friendship. She's like, You're your friends are these deep, wonderful people that treat you so well and have all these amazing qualities. But then you're dating, you're throwing that all out the door. And she was like, Bring your blueprint to dating. Like when you sit there, like, what?

00;39;20;26 - 00;39;36;27
Madison
I want to be friends with you. Do you kind of give the healthy friend vibe that I want? And then that plus chemistry, right? Should feel like an amazing friend that you could talk to all the time. But there's obviously more there, and I think that's important to know. I feel like with some of my friends have been friends forever.

00;39;36;27 - 00;39;46;09
Madison
I'm like, Oh yeah, I quote unquote bored. But I'm like, We're so deeply connected. We've been friends so long, it's so rewarding. So I kind of try to think about it like that.

00;39;46;11 - 00;39;53;14
Mike
Yeah, yeah, No, I like that Segways into my next question, which this topics are really interesting to me because oh.

00;39;53;14 - 00;39;54;21
Madison
Gosh, yes.

00;39;54;24 - 00;40;15;20
Mike
It's friendships and breakups, breaking up with friends. So another one of your podcast episodes, it's called Navigating Friendship, Breakups and Outgoing People. And you talk about how this is something normal and everyone goes through this because, you know, as we especially if you're doing healing work and change and growing, it's natural to not have the same people around us.

00;40;15;20 - 00;40;41;11
Mike
We're going to some people are going to fall away and that's not a bad thing. I know they definitely don't teach us how to break up in a normal relationship, but when it comes to a friendship, break up. A Okay. Do you want to touch on how outgoing people, the normal part of life and you know, it's not something that we should stress out over if it does happen, because it will happen, especially if you're doing this work and then being what is the best way to break up with a friend or let things fall away.

00;40;41;12 - 00;40;44;23
Mike
How do you how do you navigate that in the best possible way?

00;40;44;26 - 00;40;55;00
Madison
Yeah, I haven't thinking about this so much because I think with dating, it's like you go on a date you don't buy. Are you going to send that text of like, sorry. And I feel a connection, but it's so awkward to do that with friends.

00;40;55;02 - 00;40;55;20
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00;40;55;20 - 00;41;16;03
Madison
I think it's such a nuanced topic because there's so many types of friendships, like, am I breaking up with a friend that's a new friend? Dinnigan One friend that I have. We've been friends for ten years. I think the first part of your question is like talking about how it's normal because it is. I mean, there is just no way you're going to be the same person.

00;41;16;06 - 00;41;30;27
Madison
I'm a new person every year, every five years, Like I have very few friends that I've carried with my whole life. And those people and I have changed so much, but we've managed to grow together. But I've had a lot of other kind of friends that I've been friends with for a month, I've been friends with for a few years.

00;41;31;03 - 00;41;52;02
Madison
And I think that it has to be that way. We don't have enough capacity or space to keep everyone around and we're here to evolve, right? We're kind of the center point of our life and other people. I think that whole reason season someone's here for reasons. These are a lifetime it's so true. It's like not everyone's purpose in your life is supposed to be forever.

00;41;52;09 - 00;42;09;22
Madison
To think that way is a disservice to our growth. And I think that, yeah, I think it's it's so normal. And I think when you can welcome it and bring people in and be like just being able to be in the experience rather than the holding on and needing it to be something and just letting it teach you what it is is so important.

00;42;09;24 - 00;42;14;26
Madison
I just it's, it's a part of life and it's a hard part of life, but it is a part of life.

00;42;15;01 - 00;42;38;15
Mike
And having really had to break up with someone said the words, Hey, this is not working. Or because to me it is such like a touchy topic. And I've had friends that I've done my growth work, and then we're starting to feel like we're not aligned anymore. And, you know, even the conversations were not sort of aligned with each other, but it was so hard to tell them, Hey, I don't think we have it here anymore.

00;42;38;15 - 00;42;53;13
Mike
And I imagine on the other side she felt the same way. But I think we just ended up stop for less and less communication and it just fizzled out. But I don't know if that's the best, you know, that's more of the avoidant way to handle things, but have you ever have you ever had to have that conversation?

00;42;53;13 - 00;42;56;27
Mike
Just tell someone, Hey, I don't think this is working.

00;42;56;29 - 00;43;15;14
Madison
I've had so many types of friendship break ups sick, like I've had like so many because I think that I'm a person I love meeting New people and I love like relationships are my jam. So I think that I love meeting new people, which probably causes me to have to separate from more people. But I think there's a bunch of different types, right?

00;43;15;14 - 00;43;30;16
Madison
I think it's actually what you were saying is actually like the best way to go about it is mutually over time, you kind of distance and you kind of both realize that this is maybe not the best fit. That's like the goal, right, to to kind of have that happen. But then there's also what happens when you're friends with someone for a while.

00;43;30;23 - 00;43;56;02
Madison
I think when it's newer, I think it's okay to stop talking. I know that's kind of bad, but I think if you go on one or two hangouts or a few, it's like if you can just kind of like slowly, just Balthazar, maybe not the best advice, but I think with someone new it's a different story. But when you're friends with someone for a long time and it's not mutual, like let's say they care a lot more or you care a lot more, I think that I personally think that the best thing is to have a conversation and it's really awkward.

00;43;56;04 - 00;44;12;06
Madison
I'm like, Can we normalize that right now? I want to just create a normalization in life that we do it the same way we do. It's break us because it's so hard. But I think the best thing is to have a conversation and to recognize that you let's say, if they want to be your friend, we more than a year ago and you're like, This just isn't in alignment for me anymore.

00;44;12;07 - 00;44;27;23
Madison
I think a lot of people try to descend to make it fizzle out or they like keep them in their life. And I'm like, That is such a disservice to the other person and to you. I would never want to be friends with someone who is only friends because they think that I need them and I would be suffer and be without them.

00;44;27;27 - 00;44;43;28
Madison
And so I think honesty and I think meeting it with kindness because no matter what, whether you stop talking or whether you have a conversation like it's going to probably hurt them. But I think the best thing to do is, to be honest, be like, Hey, I don't really believe in holding. I'm just busy and life is hard right now.

00;44;43;28 - 00;45;02;18
Madison
I like to genuinely just be like I feel currently like this isn't fully in alignment for me and you don't have to go tons of detail. You could be like, maybe like if something happened, you can just kind of help make me feel comfortable on some space I love and care about you. This is really awkward and hard to say, but I.

00;45;02;21 - 00;45;21;21
Madison
I'm setting this with love, but at the same time I need space. I think there's just ways you can frame it that are kind and then kind of releasing the rest of it and remembering another person's emotions as much as you care, like your responsibility. And I know that's awkward and hard, but it's it's a disservice to yourself and them to be in a relationship that isn't in alignment for you.

00;45;21;21 - 00;45;38;24
Madison
And if it's not in alignment for you, it shouldn't really be in alignment for them either. And so the only reason it feels in alignment with them is because you're maybe pretending to enjoy the relationship and you're not. And that's not fair. See, I think just remembering like it is kind to end relationships if they aren't in service to you.

00;45;38;24 - 00;46;05;13
Madison
And it's also like we're here to live a life that feels good and that is honest and there's something in your life that constantly makes you feel weird. You know, I've had relationships where I feel really uncomfortable. I'm like, I don't feel aligned anymore. And I've had to, you know, and the friendship kindly. And I still feel bad about it to this day for some things of, you know, I wish I could be Everett's friend all the time, but that's not we're here for we're here to grow.

00;46;05;13 - 00;46;23;24
Madison
We're here to evolve. So I think that's the best thing to do. And to answer the question of like, yes, I've I've had a lot of different, you know, verbally or non-verbally. But I think if as long as you lead with kindness and you honor yourself and you also honor them in a way, I think that that's all you can do.

00;46;23;26 - 00;46;45;29
Mike
Yeah. No, no, those are very helpful words. I know for myself again, coming from more of the avoidant side of things for matters like this, my sort of new role as now is like, I'll trade that 510 minutes of uncomfortable conversation for like months and months of like thinking about it and oh, it's like if it's take care of a lot of real estate in my head.

00;46;45;29 - 00;47;14;23
Mike
And I'm like, okay, just have this conversation. It's 10 minutes. It's going to start. Probably not going to be fun, but this is going to give you so much peace of mind. And you know, you don't have to drag something on for months and months and months. So I just challenge people like, I know it's uncomfortable, but it's 5 minutes, ten minute conversation and it just saves sort of both of both people, a lot of, you know, false perceptions and narratives and, you know, not knowing where where people stand.

00;47;14;23 - 00;47;18;05
Mike
So not fun. But we got to do it.

00;47;18;08 - 00;47;37;04
Madison
You know, it's, I think, just honesty and integrity with yourself. And I love that. I think short term discomfort for long term wellness for yourself is worth having. You both be like, what's going on? I just think we're too old for that. Yeah, honest. And I just I don't think people do it enough. And I think a lot of people are past that.

00;47;37;04 - 00;47;42;21
Madison
I live in Minnesota, so it's passive world over here. But I think, yeah, they leave with kindness.

00;47;42;23 - 00;47;58;15
Mike
And I know it's scary for some, you know, when they were kids, when they tried to be honest with their parents, maybe their parents had a bad reaction. So they're like, oh my gosh, when I speak my truth or I speak my mind, I get trouble or I get a lot of withheld from me. So it can be scary, right?

00;47;58;15 - 00;48;05;22
Mike
So again, it's something you have to develop and make a new comfort zone. And slowly but surely it gets easier and easier.

00;48;05;25 - 00;48;25;12
Madison
Yeah, and they might, they might get mad. And I think that's like an important thing to, you know, be like, I'm going to do what I need to do, and then I might not have a reaction at all and they might have a horrible reaction regardless. It's your answer the same that like you were kind, you stated what you need to and that's your responsibility and that's all you have to own.

00;48;25;19 - 00;48;30;10
Madison
Even if you know the response isn't what you want, that also isn't yours.

00;48;30;12 - 00;48;40;09
Mike
Totally. Like I said, with honesty, like you're being honest. Would you rather that I pretend in life years just to keep the charade going? Yeah, I.

00;48;40;09 - 00;48;40;27
Madison
Know.

00;48;40;29 - 00;48;53;11
Mike
It's exhausting. I'm okay. So we're coming towards the end of the podcast. Just want to know, is there a tool or a strategy or just something you want to leave with our audience that can help them in their everyday lives.

00;48;53;13 - 00;49;11;17
Madison
Or I had a therapist I remember this is all we talked about was self-compassion. And I was like, This is the dumbest topic ever. Yeah, be like, kind to yourself. But I was like, Wow, I realize how much I know I beat myself up when I'm not where I want to be at or just anything. And it's like, Oh my goodness, we deserve to talk to ourselves.

00;49;11;18 - 00;49;28;04
Madison
Sometimes we're not going to be where we want to be. Sometimes we're trying our all and it isn't getting us where we want to be. Sometimes we mess up and realizing we're all very human and we're very messy and just being able to be compassionate with yourself and putting that into practice is like the most loving thing you can do to be.

00;49;28;07 - 00;49;43;20
Madison
I know it's hard. I know it's a weird thing, but really, instead of meeting yourself with unkindness to, meet yourself with that kindness of, Oh, like I'm not going to be, but I've been trying. It's a practice I'm working on, and I think that it builds a lot of joy in your life, too, because it builds a love for yourself.

00;49;43;20 - 00;50;00;07
Madison
You're like, I'm going to I'm going to give myself love in this moment versus treating myself like I wouldn't allow anyone else to treat me. So I think self-compassion is like a tool to develop, and I know how I practice it in my life and I'm infinitely happier. So.

00;50;00;08 - 00;50;17;05
Mike
Right. I love that. And, you know, at the end of the day, we still have that inner child inside of ourselves. So imagine like your your nine year old kid came home from school one day, just had the worst day ever and was like so upset or maybe they were being made fun of and they were believing the things that their peers were saying about them.

00;50;17;07 - 00;50;34;07
Mike
You wouldn't go in on them and be like, Oh, well, yeah, you probably deserve it. Or like, Yeah, you're acting this way or that way. You would be so loving to them and be like, Hey, we're going to have our days like this. And that's okay. And what they said, that's not true whatsoever. And you're still such an amazing human being and I'm so happy you're here.

00;50;34;09 - 00;50;54;14
Mike
You know what I mean? You you wouldn't do that to a young kid. So we shouldn't be doing that just sort of ourselves. We need to give ourselves that love and care. So I really like how you put that. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, we talked about a lot. An hour flew by. Is there anything else you want to share with our audience?

00;50;54;17 - 00;51;16;28
Madison
I think something I've been thinking about a lot lately is like the seasons of our life and how sometimes if we're in a season of our life where we're single or for a season of our life where we're grinding or working on our business, or for a season where there's a lot happening, there's not happening. Like I think to really just be like, I think our seasons are just meant for a reason and like, maybe we're not.

00;51;16;28 - 00;51;44;01
Madison
Where we're want to be is because right now the season is so vital and so important. And I feel that for myself is like a lot of business growth. I guess maybe right now is supposed to be the time to be hungry. And every time where I can just flow by and chill or whatever, but I think that I really just believe each season of your life brings you to the next and to look at it as that again, to go through my horrible depression, I wouldn't be in this phase if I'm not in this phase, I won't have the business flourishing the way even more so that I want.

00;51;44;02 - 00;51;52;29
Madison
I just think that's something I've been really thinking about lately, is like, maybe right now it's not the time to be in that place because you have to be here first.

00;51;53;01 - 00;52;16;07
Mike
I love that even I feel like pressure off my own shoulders, you know, like sometimes we feel like we need to be this like 24 seven through 65 production machine and like, just killing it all the time and being happy. But there are seasons where you're not going to be in that state, and maybe it's more of an introverted inward stage where you're not, you know, producing all this kind of stuff, but you're going inside.

00;52;16;07 - 00;52;24;04
Mike
And I love the idea of seasons and you're not going to be that like taking on the world and kicking. But 365 days here.

00;52;24;06 - 00;52;26;17
Madison
So that's exhausting.

00;52;26;20 - 00;52;37;16
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Thinking about it. Yeah. Awesome. So, Marissa, what are you offering these days and are you doing coaching? Is there any other things that we can know about?

00;52;37;18 - 00;52;55;03
Madison
Yeah. So right now I'm just doing 1 to 1 coaching. I'm working on a few things and group coaching and courses stuff, so stay tuned. And then otherwise. Yeah, for more talks like this, I have my podcast which I put out every week and social media to go for more like bite sized little helpful things. But otherwise, Yeah, that's, that's that.

00;52;55;05 - 00;53;02;07
Mike
Yes. And then lastly, how can people get in touch with you or how can they find you on social media? Tik Tok, whatnot.

00;53;02;12 - 00;53;21;20
Madison
My Instagram is at Wellness Mats. I created that so long ago, but what it is now, I TikTok, I was able to get my first my and Madison got brand and then my web site is Madison brand ecommerce. So for more about my coaching and all that so yeah, perfect does see guys on that side of things.

00;53;21;20 - 00;53;36;21
Mike
So yeah, for sure joined my Instagram and all that. I said, Thank you so much for your time today. I really enjoyed it and I think our listeners got to learn a lot of cool stuff from you today. There's just thanks so much for being here and had fun too.

00;53;36;24 - 00;53;41;15
Madison
I had so much time to fan. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it for sure.

00;53;41;17 - 00;53;46;28
Mike
And for our viewers and listeners, as always, best of luck on your healing journey and we'll see you next time.