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Even when I was doing my Reiki healings with my clients, I would get these these messages for my clients and they kind of seemed a little bit more like questions like, you know, these are the issues that are coming up for you in this part of your body. This is what's happening is the emotional things that are happening.

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Just so you know. Okay, bye. And it was like, no, no follow up. No, no plan afterwards of like, what's what's the healing plan? What can I do about it? How can I help? And so when I found piteously, the attachment theory stuff was like, Oh, my gosh, okay, this is this is what I've been looking for. These are some of the tools and the things that I've really needed to understand what's been going on with myself and to be able to help my clients as well.

00:00:38:24 - 00:01:23:09

Hello and welcome to the Personal Development School Podcast. I am so excited you are here. I am your co-host, Titus Gibson, along with our new special host, Mike Vizio. This is a podcast that discusses everything related to integrated attachment theory. The New attachment theory, along with the subconscious mind relationships, communication needs boundaries and so much more. Throughout this podcast, you'll see a series of episodes I upload with new information, educational tips, all about how to thrive in relationships and really master your emotional state in your life, along with special guests hosted by Mike Zito to discuss all of these amazing topics and longer form content.

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Thank you so much for being here and I really hope you enjoy this episode.

00:01:32:02 - 00:01:55:24

Welcome back. Personal Development Scale viewers and listeners. We have another great podcast for you today. Thank you so much for tuning in. My guest today is a Reiki master as well as a relationship and intimacy coach. She loves helping people to feel free and safe in their relationships and sexuality. PD's viewers and listeners. Let's welcome Shelby Avann. Hey, Shelby, how are you doing today?

00:01:56:03 - 00:02:02:07

Thanks. I feel like this should be applause in a while. Insert that in there for sure.

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So just try to use to know like, I guess me and Shelby came to know each other. Shelby has been a member of the Personal Development School for a while. She was attending some of my routines that I was holding. Sharing Circle.

00:02:13:03 - 00:02:36:09

And did you come to any of the other ones, or was it mostly sharing circle, the sharing circle and making the scripts in communication? The ones are the ones I really like to do. All right, cool. Cool. All right. Well, Shelby is a fixture at personal Development school, so we're happy to have her in here today. So speaking of, like, how did you hear about the personal development school in the beginning and kind of what brought you there?

00:02:36:15 - 00:03:04:07

So this is probably the most unlikely way that you would think a person comes to us. But I was actually I was actually doing some coaching with a dominatrix, and she had told me about PDFs. So she actually includes attachment theory in the PDFs, work with the stuff that she does when she's dealing with her clients and. And yeah, so she told me she told me about PDFs.

00:03:04:07 - 00:03:28:11

So I bet you haven't heard that one before. Yeah. No, that's super interesting. Wow. It's original. Yeah. So I guess before personal development school, I know you've done a lot of different things, but what were you doing in the area of, like, healing and growth before you joined the school? Before. Before the school I had done. I was more in, like, the spiritual realm of the personal growth stuff.

00:03:28:11 - 00:03:51:05

So I started my healing journey and I think about 2018 and I had started with meditation and a friend of mine had done Reiki and she had wanted me to sit for her and so she could basically try out what Reiki was. And then I did that and experienced it and it was like the wildest experience that I had ever had.

00:03:51:06 - 00:04:15:15

I didn't realize that I could be feeling these different sensations in my body from from an energy healing session. And then basically I was just like I was hooked on it. I really thought it was cool and I wanted to learn too. So I started doing that, which that got me in tune with the world of energy and and spirituality in a way that I hadn't been connected to it before because for me, I grew up going to Catholic schools and, and stuff like that.

00:04:15:15 - 00:04:37:00

And I never really related to God Well, or I just I don't know. It didn't really work for me. I never felt good. So then when I got into Reiki and connecting with Spirit in that way, that felt like a much better way of connecting to the world than through like a God fixture kind of thing. So yeah, so I went on the journey with that and then I was doing other like just personal growth stuff.

00:04:37:02 - 00:04:58:23

And then when I came to PDX, that was a completely different thing and it really kind of changed everything and made everything falls in place, made a lot of sense with all the holes that I felt like spiritual self-development work and then most other self-development work talk about. But it's not. It's kind of like they all that other stuff that I was learning was very level on and attached.

00:04:58:23 - 00:05:16:19

The theory actually went down and like, really made me understand what was underneath. Right, right. Okay. Thanks for sharing. Before you learned about attachment theory, like did you feel like something was missing before that? I hear about some people say attachment theory was like, Oh my gosh, I wish I knew about this before this is kind of like the missing piece.

00:05:16:21 - 00:05:41:12

Did you feel like something was missing before you learned about attachment theory? Yeah, There was this surface level healing that I was doing, but it just didn't really feel like it was getting where I needed it to be. And then even when I was pursuing my Reiki healings with my clients, I would get these these messages for my clients and they kind of seemed a little bit more like questions like, you know, these are the issues that are coming up for you in this part of your body.

00:05:41:12 - 00:05:59:19

This is what's happening is the emotional things that are happening, just so you know. Okay, bye. And there was like no follow up. No no plan afterwards of like, what's what's the healing plan? What can I do about it? How can I help? And so when I found PDX and attachment theory surfacing, oh, my gosh, okay, this is this is what I've been looking for.

00:05:59:19 - 00:06:17:17

These are some of the tools and the things that I've really needed to understand what's been going on with myself and to be able to help my clients as well. Oh, that's wonderful. So what would you say are some of your core values when it comes to yourself and your coaching practice? I like to be guided by my intuition.

00:06:17:19 - 00:06:44:21

I have a very strong moral compass, which I think very much is like my intuitive voice. Other values would be of like being able to actually focus on love and healing and peace overall. It's just those are I only know if those are actually like moral values per se, but those are some of the things that are really important to me of being able to like what it is that I want to be able to attain and help people with and the way that I want to do my work as well.

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I want it to be very aligned and feel good for me and stable, basically. Right, Right. Yeah, that makes sense. So what other areas of expertise do you bring into your coaching practice and how do you combine them with your integrated attachment theory training? So I've got my, my Reiki again and then I also I've also done a lot of work around like sex and sexuality, nervous system work.

00:07:08:04 - 00:07:37:08

I like to work within the worlds of tantra and kink as well. So there's there's like a lot of different fun spaces that I really like to play in and bring into my, my coaching And like I find that with, with Reiki and the attachment theory, I could do a Reiki session on you. We can move through your body and see what emotional things are coming up because Reiki is basically about understanding and healing the energetic and emotional layers of yourself versus like the physical side of it.

00:07:37:08 - 00:08:11:07

It can help a physical too, but when we're moving through the energetic layers through Reiki, I also get messages that come through. So it's kind of like psychic messages in a sense, and downloads and stuff. And when they come through, those are the messages that I give to the client to continue their healing. And then from there, that's where the attachment theory stuff is, because usually it's about things that are relational problems that are going on or emotional problems not be able to regulate, not being able to, you know, people being able to express their needs or their boundaries or getting like nervous system regulation work, just all all of those things that are taught

00:08:11:07 - 00:08:38:16

with the attachment theory, stuff like it comes up in in the healings. And so it's like, okay, here's the healing. I help through the energy, but you also need to do these things in order to continue to be your own healer and to continue that journey for yourself. They can't like, Oh, this actually this would be one of my like value type things, like I might be a tool for you to use, but you are ultimately your own healer and you shouldn't have to need me at the end of this.

00:08:38:16 - 00:09:02:05

It's just you've select me. I'm here to help you. I'm here to guide you, but you select who you who it is that you want to help you and how it is that you want to do your healing. I love that. That's really great. I just wanted to touch on the sexuality aspect of it. Do people come to you with sexuality specific issues or do you sort of introduce that to some people who might not know these areas and how they can benefit their relationships and themselves?

00:09:02:07 - 00:09:25:17

I've had people approach me with wanting to start with the sexuality side of things, but I quickly realized that it actually does need to come back and we need to do the relational, the attachment theory, the nervous system regulation work. First, there's there's a certain base layer that needs to happen before we can. We can touch over there because sex and intimacy is so much about like the the peak of vulnerability for humans in general.

00:09:25:17 - 00:09:42:23

And so it's even just to be able to start to feel our feelings without including sex in there. It's it can be very hard and again, super, super vulnerable. So I like to kind of take a step back and go there a little bit later, unless they like unless it's unless I think that they're actually kind of at a good place where we can do it and start there right away.

00:09:42:23 - 00:10:01:19

But usually that's not the space that the clients are at right away. Right, Right. That's interesting. I know we kind of grew up in similar areas and I also went through kind of Catholic school system and whatnot. But like, why do you think sexuality so taboo? And you know, it's obviously getting a little more acceptable to talk about certain things.

00:10:01:21 - 00:10:21:07

But I'm sure you've noticed that probably people get a little maybe squeamish or a little bit unsure how to tackle these topics. Do you think do you think it's getting better and things are opening up or is there still sort of like taboo or maybe shame around talking about sexuality or even exploring it for yourself? There is all all of it.

00:10:21:09 - 00:10:40:06

It's getting better. All of that stuff is still there. People are learning how to deal with it better. There's a lot of great life coaches and sex therapist and sex educators and people that are supporting the LGBTQ community, like all that stuff. All of it's growing and it's it's really, really great. But where everything I feel has been, you know, where everything has come from.

00:10:40:06 - 00:11:02:17

But there's definitely still that stuff from I think a lot of it is kind of religion. There's definitely a lot of stuff that comes with really religion being, you know, like no sex before marriage, purity, culture kind of thing, sex is bad. Sex is like X-Y-Z. It's only movement for making babies. And there's nothing about actually including pleasure in it, per se.

00:11:02:19 - 00:11:22:08

Like that's kind of the general. It can depend on what parts of the the church you're in or what the beliefs are. But I feel like that's kind of the overarching feel that comes from it. And that's that just brings about a lot of shame and a lot of like, I can't actually go and explore different things. I can't be a gay man, I can't be a lesbian woman, I can't be bi, I can't be nonbinary.

00:11:22:08 - 00:11:43:07

I can't go and explore the kink world because that's super taboo. And how like, how do I, you know, I would be shy from my religious community. And so, like, there's just so much in there which is shame based and it's just it's just not necessary because it pleasure is an aspect of being able to love yourself and then also to be able to love others and share.

00:11:43:07 - 00:12:06:09

And it's just like it's, it's just meant to be a really beautiful process. So it sucks that all that, that shame and stuff is behind it. Yeah, it's interesting. And I'm sure like, you know, I think my gym teacher taught us sexuality and those issues, sexual issues for like two weeks. You could tell he was like uncomfortable all the time, was just going off like these slides and anyway, it wasn't the best way to learn about a lot of those things.

00:12:06:09 - 00:12:32:08

But I'm happy that it's opening up and I'm happy people like you sort of guiding people and sharing with people out of themselves. Pleasure and how to gain pleasure and remove that shame and whatnot. So that's amazing. So how do you coach like how would you say you specifically coach and what makes you different from other coaches? Okay, so the way that I coach would be including my intuitive gifts and my Reiki gifts.

00:12:32:10 - 00:12:52:20

So being able to do Reiki on someone first is my ideal situation. So we we dive in and we figure out what's going on on that energetic and the emotional levels. I'll get messages that come through and and then I chose like what it is that would need to be worked on first because that's kind of the body is saying is bothering at the most.

00:12:52:23 - 00:13:15:10

So I can kind of make a program from there. I can do an eight or 12 week relationship, an intimacy coaching program kind of thing, which includes the IAC work. It can include some intuitive work. And so basically what the intuitive work looks like is we actually get in tune with the client's intuition and then understand what the intuitive voice looks like versus or sounds like versus what the ego voice sounds like.

00:13:15:12 - 00:13:34:19

And so on a scientific scale, that's like intuition is only really able to come through when we are in a regulated state and our body feels safe and then we can actually like feel into our bodies, feel what's coming up through our intuition and then ego state would be fear, mind, safety and scared like, you know, fight or flight mode kind of thing.

00:13:34:19 - 00:13:54:00

So that's when we're disregulated and that's what's coming up. So being able to identify the two of those include those in the sessions, get the goodness purely directly out of the client versus me telling them what it is they need because their intuitive voice is very, very wise. And so I like to be able to empower people by finding that and utilizing that too.

00:13:54:02 - 00:14:11:19

But again, it depends on the client themselves, whether they want to go more logical, what would be that attachment theory type stuff or whether I think that they need to be pushed more into their body and maybe some spirit stuff, and then that could look like, again, the intuitive sessions or just doing some body work, which includes nervous system regulation and maybe some like meditation.

00:14:11:19 - 00:14:33:13

And so you bring them down and ground them right as they. So yeah, with intuition. I really remember when I was meditating consistently, I started bringing a pen and a pad with me because I was getting just these amazing messages and just like helpful guidance from just like sitting in the silence and not being sort of in a disregulated state.

00:14:33:15 - 00:14:54:21

So do you have to, I guess, remove the negative emotions or sort of remove the disregulated state before you can access any intuition? Is there a way to sort of get people to be in that mode of able to access it? I mean, I don't want you to give away all your tools and tricks right here, but do you have to sort of calm the nervous system first before you could even get your intuition?

00:14:54:23 - 00:15:11:19

Yeah, basically. So all the way that I like to do it is like, we'll go through a meditation. Usually it's like a grounding meditation. It is visualization. It might have to be something like a body scan and feeling in the body like what's wrong? And then listening to what's being said and what we need in order to feel safer in our body.

00:15:11:19 - 00:15:27:23

Maybe the ego needs to speak first about something and say, I have fears that my jaw usually goes like I have a job and I don't want intuition to talk because then I'm not going to be needed or necessary. So it's really it's really quite interesting. But yeah, there's a few different things that can kind of come through.

00:15:27:23 - 00:15:44:22

But basically, yes, we do need to come down to a regulated nervous system state in order for the intuitive voice to to fully come through. And that can also just be like with co regulating with me because I come to my sessions in a regulated state. And so our nervous systems talk to each other and they're like, Hey, she's 12.

00:15:44:22 - 00:16:02:01

So we can we can probably do that too. There's no danger here, right? Right. Yeah. For those that don't know, you can co regulate, I guess calm your nervous system, stay with someone who is regulated and they can actually like bring you to like mirror their state would you say? Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. So I know you do women's circles.

00:16:02:01 - 00:16:35:07

Do you want to let me know what what is a woman circle exactly what do you do during those. So with the the women's circles it's basically about being able to bring women together to create this really beautiful community where we can support one another. So I'll usually start those where opening up will we'll chat and tell each other like an intention why you wanted to come to the circle and then we'll have cards that I'll lay out and you get to pick a card and see kind of what, Look, I'd be kind of your maybe like your guiding force or a part of your intention for the circle that day to we'll share some

00:16:35:07 - 00:16:53:06

more stuff. I'll guide people through meditation and then we'll do some. We usually share whatever kind of comes through with the meditation as well. If there was any messages. And that theme usually arises as we share as well. And then after that we'll do some, some of kind of like the coaching work that I would basically do just in a group setting.

00:16:53:06 - 00:17:14:17

So a set of questions that can be based on it could be based on like the cycles of the moon, it can be based off of goddess energy, it can be based off of the menstrual cycle or just like the women cycles in general relationship stuff, sex stuff, it can be all the things can be bit like a shame that we talked about earlier too, which I did in a past I passed circle recently, so it's just all of that.

00:17:14:19 - 00:17:30:11

They do that work and that's kind of more quiet work. Then I'll go and do Reiki on them. If it's a small enough group, I can do individual Reiki while they're working on that stuff. And then at the end, if we have time, we'll kind of like share again or share little bits and pieces that people feel comfortable sharing and opening up.

00:17:30:11 - 00:17:50:24

And so it's this really, really beautiful container where women can feel held and safe and supported by other women. And sometimes it's kind of nice in a sense of it being like random women and no one actually knows each other because then people can actually sometimes people feel safer in that sense. It's like I can walk away and no one's going to know my deepest, darkest secrets or the shame that I feel or whatever it is.

00:17:50:24 - 00:18:13:15

So there's like a safety and this anonymity in a sense, which is it's cool, but at the same time it brings everyone together, which is it's just it's really beautiful. I love my circles. I can already tell, like by the end of it, people probably feel so like filled up and get so much out of it. You're building trust the whole time, and then naturally you just kind of want to share and open up more to these lovely people and you know, this environment you've created.

00:18:13:17 - 00:18:30:23

So yeah, really, really nice. Yeah. So you mentioned already Reiki a few times. For anyone who doesn't know what's Reiki in a nutshell for people who might not know exactly what it is. So Reiki is basically energy healing. When I'm in a session, basically what it is is I call it in and then I'm the conduit of the energy.

00:18:30:23 - 00:18:53:12

So it moves through my body, into my clients body. And then I work through the chakras. So there's seven chakras in the body and each one represents something different. So it could be like the roots, the basic needs. Sacral is emotions, creativity, sexuality we have. So perhaps the confidence part is love is self-expression through eyes, intuition and crowd is your connection to spirit.

00:18:53:14 - 00:19:20:22

And so depending where I'm working, like to me, whatever intuitive messages come up as I'm doing work on people, that's that's it's like it's affecting those particular areas on the body, right? And then so in a session you might, you might experience heat or cold or like waves of energy in your body. You might feel sometimes like tingling or sometimes pain is being released, but it has to be felt before it can be released.

00:19:21:01 - 00:19:44:20

Different people have their own different abilities too, so people might actually like see things or get their own messages like it. Their intuitive stuff kind of comes up too. And yeah, and it's, it's really cool. And then I can do it in person and distant. Now, I think it like the distant thing is really interesting. Yeah, it's kind of like the way that I started explaining this recently as it's like a part of our cell phones work and then we have our cell phones and the towers that receive the messages.

00:19:44:20 - 00:20:07:23

And so our bodies are basically like a much more efficient energy seeker in a sense. So we are like the cell phone. We can just receive energy from anywhere in the world. That's so interesting. So with this chakra thing, can you sort of tune in on someone far away and sort of know maybe which shock or feels out of balance, or do you just sort of go in there and just touch all the chakras and try to make sure everything's in balance and clear?

00:20:08:04 - 00:20:28:06

So if I'm doing an online session, I can do a scan. Usually I just start from the solar plexus, which is in the middle. So it's like just basically just a lot of boobs kind of thing. But that's where the solar plexus doesn't always work through all of them. But I can actually like wave my, like visualize them and wave my hand over the body and feel heat and wherever it's heat or cold.

00:20:28:06 - 00:20:51:17

So if there's heat for me, it means that there is like energy will be taken in there. It's needed, it's just efficient. And then if I feel cold, it means that there's a block so interesting and I can share this with myself and I know this to be true, where probably about 2 hours before every podcast, my throat starts becoming a little blocked, like I have to like, constantly clear my throat.

00:20:51:19 - 00:21:09:00

And I know because I started I started to get a bit nervous about like, okay, like I'm going to have to be expressing and I want to be the most authentic and not like hold back as much as I can. But I think a couple hours before I have this, a bit of anxiety where I'm like, okay, like this is scary.

00:21:09:00 - 00:21:29:18

A lot of people are going to hear you and see you. But then shortly, once we get into it, you know, things clear up. But literally, too, it's almost like clockwork. 2 hours before every podcast the throat starts, I'm having to clear. So if you don't exercise for that, let me know. Okay. We talk and also a little known fact.

00:21:29:19 - 00:21:48:17

Mike has his Reiki level one certification. Yeah, no, I got it so long ago. And I'll be honest, I didn't I didn't sort of follow up with it for too long. Okay. But there was a period I was going to weekly sort of Reiki meet ups and kind of getting into that world for like six months. Yeah. Okay.

00:21:48:21 - 00:22:06:16

So, well, that's probably it. That might be what's calling you that. And just go back and and try and remember some Reiki stuff where I can help you with that after Yeah, I think I was like judging myself for not feeling enough because I am more if I can avoid it. And I've been repressing and pushing away and ignoring feelings for most of my life.

00:22:06:18 - 00:22:24:20

So I think when I was doing the Reiki, I was hearing about these people having such feeling based experiences and then I didn't. I felt like I didn't feel too much. I almost felt like numb. So yeah, maybe you're right. I need to sort of tap back into that because now I've done a lot of work and I'm way less avoidant than it was.

00:22:24:20 - 00:22:48:03

You know, this was like seven, eight years ago. Yeah, Maybe this was a reminder that I should go back into it and give it another shot, right? Yeah, but that's like, that's a great example of how of how stuff like that can actually work too. Because if we as an avoidant, if we aren't, if we aren't as in tune with our emotions and what we're actually feeling and trusting in ourselves, we can't really be able to hear a voice because again, we just don't trust it.

00:22:48:05 - 00:23:05:08

So however it is that our it's our clear is basically the ways like the different types of powers and stuff come to us, whether it's like we were able to like see a vision or something like that or knowing just drops in or we can hear words, whatever it is like, we won't believe whatever, whatever Claire is speaking to us.

00:23:05:08 - 00:23:15:22

If we aren't used to like listening to our body in the first place, right, Right. Okay. Avoidance Reiki, Get on it. Why You should do it. Let me help you.

00:23:15:22 - 00:23:34:20

I just want to pop in here and let you know We are doing a seven day free trial to the artist membership. Pass a PDA, which means you get access to literally everything inside of the school. That means you get access to the four live webinars I do every single week. You can come in, you can ask me questions with your camera on.

00:23:34:20 - 00:24:00:19

We can chat. You can leave your camera off, if you prefer, or type your questions in the chat. There's lots of opportunities to get your questions answered and on top of that you get access to all of our different courses. We have over 55 different courses on relationships, communication boundaries, emotional mastery, guilt and shame, learning your needs. So many different facets that are really important to master our lives and feel really good about our lives going forward.

00:24:00:21 - 00:24:20:01

And last but not least, there's also community elements in there. So there's a daily community event, whether it's practicing communication or doing a guided morning routine or a guided reprograming exercise. We have trained facilitators and coaches who are in there doing that work, showing up to support you on your journey every single day. So I would love to see you on the other side.

00:24:20:01 - 00:24:38:14

There's lots of exciting stuff in there and we have had a 99.7% NPS score, which means we have literally that many people who report being really successful apprize and wanting to recommend us to others. And it was all done anonymously. So I felt really honored that everybody shared that. So thank you to those who did. But yeah, please join me on the other side.

00:24:38:14 - 00:24:43:07

Come check it out, see if it's a fit for you. I'd love to see you there.

00:24:43:07 - 00:24:52:07

what are like some fun rituals that you do for yourself? Or what are some fun rituals you like to do with others? Okay, so for myself, I really like I like to do a morning routine.

00:24:52:07 - 00:25:13:06

It changes depending on what I feeling, but so my my rituals can look like like a meditation. It can look like breathwork. You can look at going for a walk. I like to make crystal grids every so often. The other day I made this one. It's beside me now, but it's like, this must be a money grid. And so I like to that's one of the things that I'm working on.

00:25:13:06 - 00:25:30:23

And improving. So I have someone that guided me through like this money, marriage vows, basically. And so I made like this beautiful altar that has like crystals and money and black dried flowers and cards and what else to have. Were there a whole bunch of really great stuff that is just like really beautiful and feels like abundant to me?

00:25:31:00 - 00:25:48:23

And I created that and did that ritual. So I like doing stuff like that for myself. Yeah. So the ritual that I have with others is there's one person that I have a morning ritual practice with which looks like sharing a gratitude and a manifestation and then a download that we have each morning. So we just kind of send that back and forth.

00:25:48:23 - 00:26:05:15

That's something I really like to do. I like to be able to like what my women's circles would be like, a ritual in a sense as well. Also, I like to be able to do that or go and hang out with like one my other girlfriends who super spiritual and like woo woo as well. And we'll go like play cards and, and just like chat and maybe we'll do some sort of healing on one another.

00:26:05:15 - 00:26:21:21

But usually it's just with our words that's, that's actually very ritualistic in a sense. It's just we let the intuitive stuff download and see what comes through, which is it's fun. So yeah, it's amazing. Where are you always spiritual your whole life, or did you sort of was that like later on where you discover that side of yourself?

00:26:22:02 - 00:26:38:08

I, I think I was always in me because I've always been very sensitive, but I, I didn't really know what it was and I wasn't really in the environments for it right away. Like I, you know, kind of like I said earlier, with the religion side of things, like school for me, I wasn't really it, it didn't really work for me.

00:26:38:08 - 00:26:57:16

I didn't really like it isn't really a line and like it only started to align with me when we started. We did a world religions class and then I was like, Ooh, I like the idea of Hinduism and Buddhism. Like, these are these are really, really cool. Like, I love the idea of being able to have like basically a specific intention or to speak to a specific god or goddess or deity or whatever it looks like, right?

00:26:57:18 - 00:27:19:18

Or animal spirits or all these different types of options like that just sounds so much more fun. And then I love like, I love animals too. So I've been around animals all my life. So my like one of my gifts as well is definitely with horses in particular. And just, yeah, I love animals. So I think like the sensitivities and the gifts and energy with animals is a big thing for me that I actually don't always even realize.

00:27:19:18 - 00:27:40:00

And people are kind of like, you know, this is like a huge part of you, right? I'm like, Yeah, I've been doing it forever. I forget. Yeah, that's awesome. I love this episode. How are we getting so much into the spiritual stuff for anyone Doesn't know I'm in to Mexico right now, so like, time is just like kind of spirituality haven.

00:27:40:02 - 00:28:05:06

There's a lot of healers and energy workers, lightworkers, all sorts of different people. So it's really fun. I get to learn a lot of new things and things that I never would have been exposed to or even thought about. And it's just really fun. Like you get to take what you think is resonates with you and that you want to learn more about and some other stuff you might be like, Nah, that doesn't really agree with me, but that's the beauty of life.

00:28:05:06 - 00:28:35:04

Like you sort of have different options and just go with what feels right to you. I have a question for you, actually. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Have you have you been to De los Muertos, like the Day of the Dead ceremonies? So I've been here for two years. I've seen two of them happening. The last time that I witnessed it was in Puerto Escondido, which is in Oaxaca, and they take it really, really seriously at pretty much every household sets up an altar in the house or outside of the house.

00:28:35:04 - 00:28:56:00

But they pay homage to the to the departed, and they'll put all of their favorite things on the altar. So you'll see a picture of them. And then you might see like a cigaret and an ashtray, a bottle of beer. You'll see some pieces of bread. They just put things that the person used to really love and sort of show them, you know, to come back and all their favorite things are here.

00:28:56:02 - 00:29:11:10

But anyway. Yeah. What was your question? Yeah, I witnessed a few of them. It's so beautiful. Yeah, really beautiful. Yeah. No, I did a trip. I know this is an on topic for the for the podcast at all, but it's just, I think like speaking to this verse, I have like altars and being able to celebrate and hold things sacred kind of thing.

00:29:11:10 - 00:29:32:02

Like Mexico is a beautiful place that does something like that because I've experience, I've experienced it once before as well. Specifically, I went for that. I just loved the altars with like, they have the flowers too, and they like weave. Are they? The palm is a palm trees that they have there? I think so, yeah. Yeah. So they, they leave like the leaves together and they maybe go like full body to altars with you out with all these.

00:29:32:04 - 00:29:51:24

Just I really liked it. I thought it was a super cool thing overall, what's beautiful and I think is death is, is celebrated and death is not it's out in the open like there's it's not like oh yeah we talk about that. Yeah. Like it's sort of it's, it's a part of life and it's part of the whole cycle and it's sort of not hidden.

00:29:51:24 - 00:30:14:14

It's in the open here, which makes you feel, I think it would be more comfortable, you know, because if you have this big, scary, you know, monster under the bed that you're not supposed to talk about or think about, like that's, you know, it's pretty heavy, right? So, yeah, well, it's a way that you can kind of think of it and be like, I'm actually supported by my ancestors versus their scary ghouls and ghosts and demons.

00:30:14:14 - 00:30:44:15

Yeah. So in your coaching practice, where would you say that people struggle the most around intimacy? In the PDS group, there's a lot of questions that are kind of being asked around whether or not people should sleep with someone really quickly. How are they going to know whether or not they're good in bed, basically? And and basically what people need to kind of like know about that is that emotional intimacy is really needed to be able to feel safe to have a really great sexual experience, safe and intimate, healthy sexual experience.

00:30:44:19 - 00:30:59:20

You can have a lot of chemistry, which like taste, talks a little bit about that too, or that it can be like a ton of chemistry if there's that insecure attached attachment style. So there is the of anxious seeking and wanting to give love in the event like running away. And then finally you actually like have to actually make it happen.

00:30:59:20 - 00:31:26:01

You're like, I feel so loved in this moment in time and then everything else is like not good outside of that moment in time. Yeah. And so, like, it's wanting to be able to create something that's way more stable and intimate consistently because intimacy in itself isn't sex. Intimacy is being able to have emotional intimacy with self, being able to have emotional intimacy with others, being able to feel safe, being able to feel trusted, like intimacy is so many different things.

00:31:26:01 - 00:31:50:20

But it's not just sex. Like all intimacy is just like you can have an intimate connection with your like with your spirituality that like it's about feeling that held safe, vulnerable connection with, with others and with, again, with whatever, with all these different things. So right, being able to create that emotional intimacy is, is probably like the biggest thing that people come to me or I witness people having problems with me, like how do I, how do I hold off?

00:31:50:24 - 00:32:15:21

I won't read. I mean, that's like you need to build the emotional intimacy just don't go home with them. Don't get a ride back with them. Just like just don't ride it. You know, it's obviously different for everyone and probably, you know, face them on the people pleaser side and maybe anxious as well. Is it more than wanting to please the other person or are they like, hey, like I have needs here, This would be fun physically, I think it's I want to be left.

00:32:15:23 - 00:32:34:02

I think that's when everything kind of basically boils down to is I want to be loved, I want to be desired. I want you to want me. And maybe, maybe that means moving really fast, but not really, because I'm not actually getting the emotional intimacy that I truly, truly desire. Like, I can't get that. So instead, let me try to see or like a connection in some way, right?

00:32:34:02 - 00:32:57:19

So emotional connection. I'm not really getting that. So how about we try sex and said, okay, I've got such a connection, that's great. But then over time it dwindles and then you feel disconnected in sex because you don't actually have that emotional connection to it. You don't actually feel safe. And then I find like pleasure is harder to find because if we don't actually feel safe in the like, during sex, then like, we can't we can't express our needs, we can't express our boundaries.

00:32:57:19 - 00:33:14:06

We kind of like like consent starting become very like blurred line and like, oh, yeah, maybe that's okay. I don't really think I like that. I don't know. I think I can say that because then I don't think that I'm going to be loved. It's just not a safe place to be. And you can't relax into pleasure. You can't relax into being able to actually have an orgasm.

00:33:14:06 - 00:33:32:22

You like things like that. Like pleasure is a gift to be given to people. Like it's a gift to yourself. It's a gift to be given to people as well. So they need to deserve it. They need to earn it by giving you safety and emotional connection. I love that. That's so profound. Yeah. We're not in it for just cheap, physical thrills.

00:33:32:22 - 00:33:52:12

There can be so much more intimacy in such a deeper level If you. I guess you're saying build that foundation first. Yeah, you get right into it. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not like and for clarity too, it's a little bit like it's probably one of the things that in a sense religion got right, which is, you know, like, wait, wait, have sex, but you don't have to wait to have sex until marriage.

00:33:52:14 - 00:34:06:10

Right? But like, wait and build up a connection and do that, like make sure that you guys really like each other on all levels, too. Because if it's something that you actually want to build long term, then you need to be you need to like each other, right? You're not going to want to have sex all the time.

00:34:06:15 - 00:34:24:20

So you need to be able to be friends and actually enjoy the connection that you have. Otherwise, definitely. Yeah. Wise words. Okay. Can I ask you, what are some issues that came up for you on your healing journey regarding intimacy with self and with partners that you're passionate about helping people with? Now? That's basically kind of what I actually just talked about.

00:34:24:20 - 00:34:45:23

So I was NFA before and I definitely had the I definitely would like rushed into relationships and have sex too quickly because because of what I said, like I was like, I, I'm not feeling like I'm fully getting that emotional connection that I want. I really want it, and maybe I can get connection in a different way. Maybe I can I can fill this cup, this bucket in a different way.

00:34:46:02 - 00:35:04:05

And then it would be through sex. And and then over time, it was kind of like my body just started being like, you know, we're having fun, but I can't I can't really, like, give the gift of orgasm to you anymore because you're not connecting with me on a level that I need you to. Right. And I would get frustrated with myself cause I didn't understand that originally.

00:35:04:07 - 00:35:20:01

But again, through through the stuff that I was learning as well, someone, someone had told me that like, it's a gift, right? That, you know, your body is just protecting and saying, No, they don't deserve it, so they're not going to get it. And it's just kind of like, Oh, okay, here you body. Thank you. I love that.

00:35:20:03 - 00:35:43:06

I guess you might know this or not because you're into the energy work or whatnot. But I remember I got a wake up call when I heard from some people in the spiritual community that said, each person you sleep with, you're taking on some of their energy. Mm hmm. So maybe if they're not like, I don't know, the best person or really unhealed, they might be taking on some some of that energy and becoming a part of you.

00:35:43:08 - 00:36:01:19

Is that credence to that or is that maybe. Yeah, Yeah. I think there's a I think there's yeah, yeah. So that's that's one of the other things that I'll talk about, especially with women but like the womb space holds hold so much stuff like it holds so much trauma. Again, it's the space of like sexuality, emotions and creativity.

00:36:02:00 - 00:36:23:01

Like it's a space where literally, like creation is held and made within women, right? So like for babies, that's where our ideas come from because it holds all of that stuff. They're like, That's kind of a big part of our energetic center where it can be held. So, like, women can experience pain and numbness within themselves because of trauma or because of like maybe people's energy have been held there.

00:36:23:01 - 00:36:45:16

And it's actually like creating a blockage in like their physical womb space, like things like that can definitely happen. And even actually, like there's an aspect of this to me that's been happening now just on trying to like cut cords with past people that I've been with and even like current people, to have just being able to rehash and keep your energy to yourself and to separate other people's energy from yours, like it can blend so easily.

00:36:45:16 - 00:37:06:09

And if you're sensitive, you'll notice it. And I've I've become more and more sensitive as I do more of my work to become more secured and healed, like, wow, I can feel so much. Okay. So, yes, there is there is a lot of credence to taking on people's energy. Right? Right. Yeah. So how would you say healing attachment wounds for anyone out there whose, you know, insecure attachment style?

00:37:06:10 - 00:37:30:11

How does healing those wounds create a sexual relationship satisfaction or like meaningful sexual relationships? It brings safety. It helps you to actually feel safe in your relationships, to be able to be truly vulnerable. It can bring like physical safety. So actually being able to have those talks about, hey, let's let's both go and get like an STI test and we're going to show each other what it is and and make sure that we're safe that way.

00:37:30:11 - 00:37:53:03

Right. And say, hey, I'm into the world of kink and I really want experience all these things. Can we talk about it and see what you might be comfortable with, what I might need to go to like a professional dancer for? Or maybe we're going to train poly and then someone else can meet those needs and then be able to have, like all these conversations around all these like wildly different cool things, which requires vulnerability and safety and trust with yourself and your partner.

00:37:53:07 - 00:38:17:10

Like, you can have all of that, but it has to be it has to come in a really healthy way. It can't come in and secure way. It'll be super hurtful if it comes from an insecure space for sure. Would you err on the side of like if you have these specific things, wants and needs to say it earlier on, or is that something that takes a while to develop trust with someone and then you can let them know later on, Hey, I would really like to try this or I'd be really interested in this.

00:38:17:12 - 00:38:50:00

Would you say that's an early conversation I have or once trust established? I think it depends. It depends on what it is that you're talking about. So I find that people that are with like if you want, I think most people are on the monogamous scale, but if you're someone that's like, I know that I want to be a poly person or I know that I am definitely into the world of kink, I know that I bi or I know that like whatever the situation is, like there's certain things like that which I think need to be said upfront because people need to be on the same page with that stuff because it's a big

00:38:50:00 - 00:39:16:02

deal. Yeah, they need to be. But I think like it's that's, it's a hard conversation too, because I find that within those realms there are certain places where there are certain places where you go to where you feel a little more comfortable to actually have those conversations and know that those people are already kind of like maybe interested in in those realms versus like if you're just going on to regular dating apps or something like that and trying to find people like Hinge and Bumble and not Tinder Tinder, I really don't.

00:39:16:04 - 00:39:36:17

But like there, there maybe it's not as well. I don't feel like it's as clear or open that you'll find those like you might. But it also depends. I find if you're in like a city, then people might be more open to those other types of lifestyle things. But if it's the kind of monogamy Vanilla Trail, which is a beautiful trail as well, then regular apps are great for it.

00:39:36:17 - 00:40:05:18

But yeah, I like that. But yeah, like how, you know, before I would probably hide parts of myself if I was dating someone or trying to get to know someone, you know, feeling shame or what if they reject me because of this? So it almost felt like you had to hide certain things. But like, the more you hide early on, the more like you have to keep those things secret when really, like, everyone has things that they're not totally proud of or areas that they know they need work on and healing.

00:40:05:20 - 00:40:24:18

But if you're hiding these things, they're hiding who you are at your core. Like, Hey, I am I am gay, or Hey, I am into this or that. Like if you have to hide those things for like your whole life, like, I feel like you're not going to live a complete life or feel totally satisfied and squeezing as much juice as you can out of this, this life that we have.

00:40:24:19 - 00:40:45:01

Yeah, well, yeah. And I do think that there's also a huge aspect of aspect of you will attract your mirror in a sense. So if you're not being truly honest with who you are, then the person that you attract isn't going to be either. Right? Right, Right. Have you heard those stories of people together for like years, decades or whatever?

00:40:45:03 - 00:41:01:23

And then they get into this like massive fight at the end of the relationship and it's falling apart and then the truth comes out. People start saying stuff of how they really felt and who they really are. And it's like, Oh my gosh. Like, I don't think I really knew this person for ten or 20 years. Yeah, I know.

00:41:01:23 - 00:41:17:10

I don't. I try not to listen to those one thing. I'm like, I don't want that to happen. I prefer to just like be my best at showing up as who I truly am and uncovering as much as I can and being vulnerable and telling like, you know, this is this is me. And yeah, being as honest in who I am as I can be.

00:41:17:10 - 00:41:37:06

And I expect the same. And if you can't do that, then like we're not going to vibe because I need to know who you are. Totally. And like, if you own who you are, then you're also given permission to the other person. Like, Hey, it's safe. You're telling me. Exactly. Yeah. WonderCon Okay, so we're coming to the end of the interview today.

00:41:37:06 - 00:41:56:10

Thanks so much for being here. I just want to ask a couple more questions. As someone who's just starting to learn about attachment style that might be listening, I may be a little intimidated to do the healing work. What words of inspiration could you give to them? It's really worth it. You will see change. You don't have to do it all at once.

00:41:56:10 - 00:42:23:07

You can take your time. And I just say like you are capable of being able to be your own healer and then you can do it. I love that. That's great. I like the idea. You don't have to do it all at once because it can look like Mount Everest sometimes. If you think, you know, you have a lot of a lot of things that need healing, but bit by bit and you'll get there just like, yeah, well, I think I think of track like, you know when you're talking in the treks, like I like the layers.

00:42:23:07 - 00:42:44:07

It's like the onion is like I've got the layers. That's very much seems to be like what healing is about. It's like healing just comes in layers and you're not going to go and do healing work that is deeper than what you can handle right now. Like anything that's coming up, you can handle. And if you even if you can't, I realized I actually realized this in a session with my therapist recently was that you actually can turn it down.

00:42:44:07 - 00:43:00:23

You have the option to be like, Yo, this is a lot for me right now. Can we like, just maybe turn that down and work on a little bit of the healing and your body will listen? Like you just have to realize that's an option. I was like, Oh, this is cool. I didn't have that track before, so yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:43:01:00 - 00:43:26:15

And lastly, Shelby, so if people want to work with you, where can people find your offerings? So my website is ShelbyAvann.ca , which is about A, V, A, N, N.  Shelby Avann dot C A. And then my Instagram is Intimacy Mistress, and those are the main two places that you can find me. Like I said, I've got my other offerings and I'll do women's movement circles and I do talks, and I might end up opening up my own podcast and eventually too.

00:43:26:15 - 00:43:46:06

But those are the two main platforms where you can find me right now. Wonderful. And if you join Personal Development school, Shelby's a fixture there. We share some of the routines and webinars and whatnot. Yeah, I like answering questions in the groups too. So if there's especially if you have some sex questions, throw them. And I love answering.

00:43:46:08 - 00:44:13:18

Typically look for those like, let me help you. And this is my area that's actually it's so beautiful to see that people come in the school, they learn so much, they grow so much, they take the training and then they become sort of the gurus. So obviously Chase is like super knowledgeable and knows so much stuff, but there's so many people in the school that are into other areas such as yourself and for so much to to the members.

00:44:13:20 - 00:44:34:01

And I notice that I see the senior members, they love answering questions and, you know, providing guidance where they can. So that's pretty lovely to see. And we thank you for doing that with all of our members. Okay, Shelby, thank you so much for being here today. That was really insightful. And I learned some new stuff and hopefully the audience liked it.

00:44:34:03 - 00:44:45:09

And yeah, just thanks for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I really, I really I like talking to you, so I love doing this. Okay. We'll do it again sometime. Okay? All right. Bye.