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I tell this to my mom all the time. She's like the most giving person in the world. But I tell her, Hey, like you need to put on your own oxygen mask too.
Like, really pour into yourself because that's what's going to equip you to, show up for other people in a sustainable way.

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Hello and welcome to the Personal Development School Podcast. I am so excited you are here. I am your co-host, Titus Gibson, along with our new special host, Mike Vizio. This is a podcast that discusses everything related to integrated attachment theory. The New attachment theory, along with the subconscious mind relationships, communication needs boundaries and so much more. Throughout this podcast, you'll see a series of episodes I upload with new information, educational tips, all about how to thrive in relationships and really master your emotional state in your life, along with special guests hosted by Mike Zito to discuss all of these amazing topics and longer form content.

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Thank you so much for being here and I really hope you enjoy this episode.

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Welcome back. Price viewers and listeners to another great podcast. We have a great one today for you. My guest today is an empath. Is that a deep abandonment wound growing up? She suffered from anxiety, perfectionism, people pleasing, and found herself in several unhealthy relationship dynamics, including ones that were narcissistic. Fast forward to 2020. She had a painful breakup with a dismissive avoider which amplified her abandonment wound.

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This breakup led her to her biggest breakthrough, and it drove her to work on healing her attachment style for childhood trauma and rediscover her authentic self. She's been a regular at the personal development school since 2021, soaking in all the information and teachings from types. She's got her integrated attachment theory coaching certification from PDS and is now a life coach.

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Podcast viewers and listeners. Today we're going to talk about some personal stories along with some life tips that Hiroshi uses through her journey. I want to happily introduce neuro shutdown Arash in Hiroshima. How are you doing today? Mike I'm doing well. How are you? Very good. Thank you for being here. We'll start out in Russia. Just basically, would you be able to briefly tell us about your background, your back story?

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You want to talk about your family life growing up? Just kind of what brought you to this point and what's your life been like up until now? Sure. Yeah. First of all, thank you so much for having me. I would just like to start off by telling you that growing up, I was a highly sensitive child. I had really strong emotions and I didn't quite understand that about myself because I grew up in a family system and school system that really didn't have a lot of literacy around emotional skills.

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So I pretty much shame that part of myself and I ended up in a career and in a major in college, which did not really align with my authentic self. It wasn't until much later in life after a traumatic event that I really started digging into who I was. And that was when I started really embracing my sensitivity as a superpower.

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And I really started to, like, reclaim parts of myself. So this is me now living as that authentic version and sharing the parts of myself that I hadn't really embraced for myself. And I'd kind of get away from the world. Definitely. I can relate with the school system, not really teaching these types of tools, especially emotional literacy. And as a sensitive person, that's probably very confusing and scary.

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If you don't know you have all these feelings and you're not really sure how to manage them or what to do with them. Right. So definitely can relate with that. Thank you so much for sharing. So I just want to know that in your own life, was there like a catalyst or like a moment or someone who you met?

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What really pushed you to be like? I need to dive into my own healing journey or heal my attachment style. So I experience a really painful breakup in 2020, when the world was going through its own pandemic. I was going through a personal pandemic. I broke up with a D.A. and it wasn't even like really a long relationship or anything like that.

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It was fairly short, which is why I couldn't wrap my mind around why it was so painful for me. And that was when I was like, I have to get to the root cause of this. I found life coaching, I found Tyson's channel, and Tyson's channel really helped me give context to a lot of the day's behavior because as an anxious leaning individual, I found myself personalizing a lot of what happened during the relationship.

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And if you're listening to this, I'm sure you can relate like AP. I have a lot of wounds around feeling rejected and feeling like the other person doesn't like them or doesn't love them. And I realized later through Tyson's teaching that does cope with things differently. They minimize their attachment needs when they are feeling a lot. That is just their way of protecting themselves.

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So that helped me get context to what really happened in the relationship. And that really pushed me, like I said earlier, to healing my attachment style. With you mentioning that you are a perfectionist, I can imagine, you know, a lot of these behaviors. You were personalizing them. You were thinking, Oh, this must be me or I must not be good enough, or I must not be proving my worth enough if they're not giving me attention or whatnot.

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So just learning about sort of the day and their wounding and whatnot, I guess that helped you to not personalize it and not put all the all the blame on your side, Right. Yeah. And one other thing, as you were talking that really stood out to me was I really personalize the fact that they moved on so easily.

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So from my perspective, they really got wrapped into work. They pushed themselves into like working really hard because it was a pandemic and they had a business and stuff like that. So that was so heartbreaking for me. But now I know that's just the DEA going into their creature comforts. So yeah, that was really kind of comforting to know and learn about for sure.

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And we all think sort of everybody operates the same way that we do. So, you know, if you're really into connection and romantic relationships, especially being more on the anxious side, you probably couldn't even fathom that somebody wouldn't have that same like drive to have a relationship and have that being their number one purpose in life. Whereas some people, you know, they're at a stage in life where a career is the most important thing or can be any number of things.

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But yeah, I can definitely see the pain points there where if you're thinking like, why? Why isn't this person putting relationship as number one, the most important thing ever, Right. So you mentioned anxious leaning. So what was your attachment style before you did this inner work where you strictly anxious, preoccupied, would you say I was more AP leaning at, say, some F tendencies as well?

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And what would you say sort of what were some of the most hardest or like most challenging things about being in that attachment style? I think as an AP, the hardest part is dealing with breakouts in general. I know like breakouts suck for like I read attachment style, but they show up really so methodically, like on a somatic level.

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I remember having really bad anxiety attacks back then and I felt so alone. And part of it is because the AP gets their sense of self from the outside in. So they really want that person back to feel better or they feel like their survival is at stake at a subconscious level. Fast forward to now. It's not like I am completely indifferent to pain.

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Like I say, like I shared with you guys, I shared with you and I think people from the inner circle, I just went through a breakup again, like two months ago, but I feel like I have way more resource. But yeah, that would be the hardest part about dealing with just situations or relationships in general. For an AP is dealing with a breakup aspect of it.

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And I would also say that if you had a tendency, a lot of fears come up for you. So I do remember when I got really close with this person, and even though they were really into it, they wanted to take their relationship to the next level. I remember really like feeling my body like, freeze and shake, and now I have context for that.

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I remember like I just didn't feel right about it for some reason. And now I know it's like the commitment of fear is coming up. So if you have a face like there's also this fear, like even as a person that's healthy, that can really come up for you. And the other thing that I remember happening for me is that keeps happening in a lot of cases as I kind of recreate dynamics that are chaotic and you're kind of drawn to that in a lot of ways.

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So that can be really challenging as well because a part of your conscious mind like Tight says really wants like a thriving relationship, but then your subconscious mind is also drawn to like the pull of chaos and like uncertainty. So there are a lot of conflicting parts of you. So I would say those would be the most challenging parts of being like.

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Yeah, most definitely. You mind if I dig into a little bit, just our viewers who are not ape or not on the anxious side when a breakup happens, what sort of the feeling or what's the thought like? Is it literally like my world is coming to an end? Or is it body sensations? Like just literally feeling like there's something like really wrong here?

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Can you dig just a little bit into what a breakup feels more like for an anxious person? Oh, yes. So I think the first sensation that I remember having is like this deep, hollow feeling in my gut as it's like someone just punched me in the gut and also this pressure on my chest. I also feel I remember feeling like I just couldn't eat or sleep anymore.

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I remember feeling really confused. I remember not being able to eat for days, and I know that sounds really extreme, but that's really what I went through. It's like your body's going in shutdown mode, like it just can't live anymore. Like it needs this person to feel safe and to feel okay again in the world. So it's almost like you're going into survival mode.

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And also remembered feeling like my legs would get really tingly and I would have like body aches all over my body. Those would be some manifestations of it. Yeah, that's obviously pretty scary and intense. And yeah, if the other person was sort of your mechanism of soothing and feeling better when they're gone, it's almost like you have nothing.

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You're like, I don't even know how to feel better right now. That can definitely be scary. And I know we have a lot of students come into the school and they want to take how to heal from a breakup cause like right away, like first thing that they want to do because they just want this pain to go away so badly.

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So definitely have a lot of empathy for for anxious leaning people who experience breakups. You shared with us examples of AP and what that was like since working on your attachment style and your attachment trauma is what have been some of the areas of inner growth that you've experienced? I think the biggest growth for me would be now I have like standards and non-negotiables in place.

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I would like to give an example from something that happened recently, my most recent situations trip, I like to call it. I met this person back in January and things were things were going great. I was just like friends with them and I started developing feelings and former me would have just like kind of went along with it because I was like so happy and I felt really known by this person.

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I really seem by this person. But now the way I know that I have grown a lot as a person is because I found myself that I was reading. I was like, Do I really want to invest so much time and energy to this person? And I realize this person actually wasn't available. They are just not an available person.

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And they told me that as well. But they were okay with just hanging out. Right? And a lot of folks will want to settle for that because they're like, Well, that's better than nothing. And I would have for it because you feel really lonely and you really want connection, especially if you're anxious leaning. But this time around I sat down and had a conversation with myself.

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I kind of saw whether or not this person matched my non-negotiables and my standards, and the answer was no. And I'm so proud of myself for actually having that tough conversation with this person and walking away from it. I think that has been my biggest growth. Like is walking away from situations and relationships that were not aligned for me.

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So I would say that was the biggest point of celebration for me. And also I remember one other experience in 2022, and I remember chains helping me with this because I was really drawn to this other person who was narcissistic and I came to one of the webinars and I was like, I really like this person. And Tyson's like, This person has a book of red flags.

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I really remember her saying that, but I wasn't quite convinced at that point. But I think through a lot of like in our growth and just evaluating on an ongoing basis whether or not I want to stay in this, I was able to close that door permanently. So those would be ways in which I think I have experience in our growth.

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Yeah, that's unbelievable because touching on what we said before, when you've experienced a breakup and you're more anxious leaning, you're just craving that physical touch, you're crazy craving that connection. So it can be so easy just to get that quick fix and go with someone who maybe is not in the best interest for you, but to say no like you very smartly had sort of your non-negotiables set out.

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And even if something feels really right, like feels, Oh wow, the chemistry is great here. If those non-negotiables are there and you're looking for one thing and this person's looking for another, the really hard thing to do. But what you just touched on, the growth, is to walk away from a situation like that. So definitely commend you for that because that's that's massive.

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I've definitely been there before. I'm sure a lot of us have, but that is a huge area of growth. Thank you so much for sharing that. So Rush, I was curious, what are some examples of issues in your past relationships being an anxious leading person, can you just let us know some of the issues that would happen over and over repeatedly?

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Yeah, I would find myself somehow drawn to people that had some element of unavailability. And I can think back to this just one example. Back in 2011 where I was in this unavailable dynamic for over two years, almost three years, and now looking back, I was like, what was I even doing? But at the time I just felt so happy.

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I felt seen for the very first time and I was like, I can do anything the situation requires for me to be able to be around this person. And I remember just hanging out with them literally every week and doing things for them. As AP is like, I'm sure a lot of our viewers would be able to relate where, you know, we are great connectors, we know what the other person's needs are.

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We are so good at being in touch with it. So we're so good at catering to other persons needs. And I found myself doing that at Todd, this person, how to drive, etc., etc.. And none of that is that in and of itself, obviously because this person was a good person. But it's just that they were not available for me and I was over giving and I was trying to get my work gain my work from like people pleasing this person for like two or three years.

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So that was just an example of the kind of dynamics I would find myself in. And when I was younger, in my teens, I found myself again being in one sided dynamics where I would be like limericks or being like a fantasy bond with a person where in my head I would be like obsessively thinking about someone I really admired who could have been a neighbor and I would just get I feel like now that I now that I think about it subconsciously, I got a lot of my needs met because I was just feeling like this person saw me and they noticed me and that made me feel valuable deep down.

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So that was just a few examples. I guess if I had to answer your question when one said it, it would be I would find myself in one sided non reciprocal dynamics over and over. Right, Right. And I just want to touch on that whole thing about being seen. Like if we're not seeing ourselves, then we're kind of setting ourselves up sometimes for being with someone who's also going to reflect that and not see ourselves.

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But I can imagine when you were with this person who saw you for the first time, it must have felt like the clouds are opening up. Like, wow, somebody actually sees me and understands me. Oh my God. Holy touch. So that you were like, spot on with that because I can really remember that moment. It's been like, what, 13, 14 years?

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But I remember the moment this person walked up to me and smiled. I remember seeing Seen for the very first time in my life. So yeah, that's really for sure. Yeah, I remember, I think one of my first girlfriends I didn't love myself and I thought there was something really wrong with me and she made me feel really, like normal.

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Like she's like normal. Like you're good. Like you're way less messed up than you think you are. And I was like, Wow, Really? So I, like, needed somebody else to, like, convince me of that. So it's really interesting, like these beliefs that we take on that to the outside world. People are like, now, like, you're, you're awesome. So anyway, thanks for sharing that.

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So basically for any apps, anxious, preoccupied is out there anxious seeing people what areas or what do you think is the most important thing that they need to focus on for their healing? I would say developing a relationship with your inner child is very, very important because as app, we tend to be very critical of ourselves. We almost tend to be our biggest enemy in a way not to sound too extreme, but we abandon ourselves.

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We betray ourselves just to please other people. And so I think developing a relationship with yourself is very important and I love how tight that said, she says, Especially if you're an empath, you know, it's not a subtraction. It's not like you have to see others less. So you see others and you see what you have to do.

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It's like you had to bring up the empathy for yourself. So you are seeing yourself and you're seeing the other person. So it's like this nice interdependence that you're developing. So if we are able to do that as apes, we're able to put on our own oxygen masks. I tell this to my mom all the time. She's like the most giving person in the world.

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But I tell her, Hey, like you need to put on your own oxygen mask, need to, like, really pour into yourself because that's what's going to equip you to really show up for other people in a sustainable way, for sure. I love that. Yeah, it's nice to be loved by everyone. It's nice to treat everyone nice and do things for people, but there's going to be times where you need to do things for yourself and take that time to sort of recover and, you know, go inwards and ask yourself, what do I need here?

00;18;42;14 - 00;19;02;07

So definitely it's good. We need to flip out sometimes and take a look inside and make sure, okay, we're not just pleasing people outside of us to stay safe, to keep people from not abandoning us and people pleasing. So that's definitely something for a piece to look at. Thanks for sharing that. So I know you mentioned to me in Croatia that you have many experience in online dating.

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You're you're somewhat of an online dating expert. What can you share about your experiences to our viewers and listeners about your years and years of online dating and maybe something they can learn from your experience and successes and mistakes? Yeah, I have a lot to share here, so bear with me at the popcorn. Let's go. Yeah, I've been on over, I think, 101st dates.

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I've been at all kinds of, you know, all the dating apps that are out there. So I had been on the receiving end of being ghosted or getting stood up on what have you. I think through all of these experiences I really developed, you know, this relationship with my selves and I have become more persistent in life and the way I like to.

00;19;48;20 - 00;20;10;09

I this comes up a lot like when I'm speaking to like clients and other friends, world dating and, you know, getting on apps. And they always tell me, you know, oh my gosh, dating nowadays sucks and dating app suck. And what I like to tell them is, yes, it sucks. Like, I think it's it's really important that we acknowledge our frustration and at the same time, we don't want to stop there.

00;20;10;09 - 00;20;36;17

Right. We want to develop this mindset of how can I empower myself in this space given the challenges that I know are going to come my way. So the way I equip myself when I go out on dates is I see it every date, every quote unquote failed date or failed relationship as a stepping stone that's taking me closer to my end goal to meeting that right person, right?

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It's a process and it's a messy process. There's no other way of getting there. It's almost like a game of marriage, right? Like, who would want to play Mario if you were just given the and I don't even know what more you get to the end of the game. Like no one wants to just get to the reward right away.

00;20;52;02 - 00;21;10;01

Right? That the joy is in the journey. It's in the ups and downs and so I would invite you if you are struggling with online dating, for those watching or listening see it, see every experience as a stepping stone and see it as, okay, what can I learn from this experience? What has this experience taught me about myself?

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Taught me about what standards I need to have next when I go back into this space again. And for me, it has been a beautiful experience of getting to know other people, getting to know myself, and not just that like a shared or earlier as an MP, I feel things really strongly, right? So when a date doesn't work out, it really dings a whole lot.

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And and I find myself asking, why am I having to suffer so much? Right? Especially with a breakup situation. I go, Why am I having to suffer? This person isn't suffering as much as I am. And the perspective that I've developed recently is like, how can I help my state? I love this terminology, like pain alchemy. It's like, how can I turn these quote unquote bad experiences into something beautiful?

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And my way of doing that is through storytelling. I love telling stories. I love connecting with people, which is what sparked the journey into like YouTube. I just started a YouTube channel and I'm like, I would have never done that. But the pain, all of the suffering that I went through is like getting out of my eyes now.

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So that sparked that idea in my head. And also I recently started a podcast where I really share things about the struggles that I went through with my recent Situation ship. And so I would invite you to do the same. Turn your pain into art. What is it that you like to do? Some people like to write songs and it's okay if no one's to to them, but I think it's very therapeutic when you write about your experiences, when you share your experiences with the world.

00;22;39;23 - 00;23;02;29

Yeah, definitely. You touched on something there and I just want to dig a little deeper into it. How do you deal with being like ghosted or quote unquote rejected if somebody doesn't kind of choose you? What's your mindset now or somebody goes to you? What's your mindset? So you're not you said, you know, it stings a little bit, but how do you not like let that sit with you for too, too long and then able to get back on the saddle.

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The first thing I do is process the emotion cinematically because you don't want to invalidate the pain. It stings, right? It shows up in your body. So you want to acknowledge the pain and you want to like, connect to your inner child. I do a lot of inner child dialog where I'll be like, Yes, this stings, this hurts a lot.

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And I see that and it makes sense why it feels the way it does. And then once I process the emotion at a somatic level, I'll also write down all the reasons why this might not be personal. I'll write down reasons like maybe this person doesn't know how to communicate. You know, maybe they are conflict avoidant, maybe they're scared.

00;23;39;13 - 00;23;59;01

Maybe there was a time in their life earlier when they communicated and they got cussed out. So I will write down all the reasons why it's not personal or it could not be personal. And one other thing actually, I've done in my experiences in the past is I will really write a text. And this is not a way this is not like a sure shot way of working out.

00;23;59;01 - 00;24;19;06

But I have really told them that, hey, like I'm not going to hold this against you. You know, it's totally fine. I know things come up and I just need to know, like, what really happened so I can get clarity around it. And that kind of vulnerability people have responded to really well because they told me and I asked them, why did you just stop responding?

00;24;19;06 - 00;24;38;09

And they were like, We were scared. We were scared like how you're going to react to things. So when I just approached vulnerably, you know, they were able to give me the reason why they didn't want to show up or whatever. And obviously not everyone is going to respond well to that, but that's just like a hack. Yeah, I know for myself, I was just when I was doing the online dating thing, I've done it many times through my life.

00;24;38;11 - 00;24;56;15

I would love to do a whole podcast on online dating because I love this topic as well. But truly, like if somebody goes you a, you're sort of getting almost like a gift that like, okay, if they're going to do stuff like this, I'm glad it happened early on. That's number one. And number two, you never know what someone's going through on the other side.

00;24;56;20 - 00;25;20;23

So it's kind of not fair to put it all in yourself, like, Oh, I must have done something bad or I must have maybe I was eating unattractive lady during the day. There could be 1,000,001 reasons of why. But it's not fair to torture ourselves, because really we have no clue what's going on on the other side. And I think the perspective that helps me the most is that there's no way that every person I go on a date with that I want to engage in a romantic relationship with that's dating.

00;25;20;23 - 00;25;38;04

So if I'm not going to choose every single person who might be interested in me, why would I expect every single date has to think that I'm for them If they don't choose me, maybe they don't see our lives lining up. Maybe they don't see that we have the same values or things that we find fun or funny.

00;25;38;04 - 00;25;57;03

Like there could just be a million different things. Like you said, you know, it's a stepping stone, it's a refining process. I would rather go on a bunch of dates to finally meet the person that I know. Okay. I think this is a really someone that we can work together with. Then, you know, just pick the next person I go on a date with and be like, okay, I got to make this work.

00;25;57;05 - 00;26;16;21

So yeah, that's thanks for sharing that. Yeah, maybe we'll do a future podcast where we just talk about online dating because I find this whole topic fascinating. And I think you remember we used to have the online dating routine in the personal development school, so we would have people talk about their experiences, We would give them tools and tips for how to sort of date consciously.

00;26;16;24 - 00;26;20;24

So yeah, it's a really, really interesting area to dive into. Thanks for sharing.

00;26;20;24 - 00;26;39;23

I just want to pop in here and let you know We are doing a seven day free trial to the artist membership. Pass a PDA, which means you get access to literally everything inside of the school. That means you get access to the four live webinars I do every single week. You can come in, you can ask me questions with your camera on.

00;26;39;23 - 00;27;05;23

We can chat. You can leave your camera off, if you prefer, or type your questions in the chat. There's lots of opportunities to get your questions answered and on top of that you get access to all of our different courses. We have over 55 different courses on relationships, communication boundaries, emotional mastery, guilt and shame, learning your needs. So many different facets that are really important to master our lives and feel really good about our lives going forward.

00;27;05;25 - 00;27;25;01

And last but not least, there's also community elements in there. So there's a daily community event, whether it's practicing communication or doing a guided morning routine or a guided reprograming exercise. We have trained facilitators and coaches who are in there doing that work, showing up to support you on your journey every single day. So I would love to see you on the other side.

00;27;25;01 - 00;27;43;16

There's lots of exciting stuff in there and we have had a 99.7% NPS score, which means we have literally that many people who report being really successful apprize and wanting to recommend us to others. And it was all done anonymously. So I felt really honored that everybody shared that. So thank you to those who did. But yeah, please join me on the other side.

00;27;43;16 - 00;27;48;28

Come check it out, see if it's a fit for you. I'd love to see you there.

00;27;48;28 - 00;28;06;29

So dear Joshua, we know that you're now a integrated attachment theory coach through personal development school. In your coaching practice, is there any area that you'd say you're specialized in or that you sort of like to help people with specialty wise? Yeah, I am a huge proponent of inner child work.

00;28;06;29 - 00;28;26;22

If you couldn't tell already, I speak to my inner child all the time, and when I say inner child, you could look at it as your subconscious mind being personified. It's essentially the programs that you developed till you were like seven years old or in your most impressionable years. So essentially you're talking to a younger version of you and you're connecting with them.

00;28;26;25 - 00;28;55;25

So I help my clients connect to that part of themselves. And recently I developed a passion for helping people walk away from situation Chips Post My most recent experience. So I just kind of I'm just feeding a calling to help people in communities. I'm working on building a support group for people who are experiencing a break up, who need help walking away from a situation ship because it's an early like walking away from addiction and it's like a form of addiction, right?

00;28;55;25 - 00;29;20;10

Because you, you know, your conscious mind knows one thing, but your subconscious mind is pulling you in the other direction. So I am in the process of building a support group for people experiencing break ups and people that are walking away from situation chips. And also one other area of one other set of people that I have a passion for and hard for is highly sensitive folks, people like me and Pat's.

00;29;20;13 - 00;29;42;06

So I'm also building a support group for them. I specialize in really helping them get to know themselves and helping them feel seen and understood in the process of developing a group of like minded individuals there. But I love that that's some really good areas there, and I know a lot of experts kind of suffer and feel like, Oh my gosh, I wish I wasn't like this.

00;29;42;06 - 00;30;04;15

So would you say like acceptance is a big piece for a chess piece to realize? Yes. That they are different, but they're also quite beautiful and have gifts and abilities that normal people might not have. Oh, exactly. I mean, you're you're spot on because the number one thing I take is these through is like seeing themselves and accepting themselves for who they are.

00;30;04;15 - 00;30;26;22

Because if you were to Google, like when I Google like each of these, the first thing like people Google is like, how do I become less sensitive? You know, how do I just shut down or kill my feelings and you don't want to do that because that's a beautiful part of you. So you work spot on there. And that's something that we agencies need to do is embrace our gifts and see them for what they are, bring them out into the world.

00;30;26;22 - 00;30;42;03

Like for me now I'm more in acceptance of it. So don't be surprised if I start crying in the middle. If I get really moved by, you know, something you share and I just embrace that part of me. I'm like, I'm just going to let myself be. And you know what? When you're vulnerable, you attract people similar to you.

00;30;42;03 - 00;31;01;28

And people love vulnerability. People love to connect with people that are real with their emotions, attract people that are similar to you and give them permission to be like, Oh my gosh, Like, I'm actually safe to like also cry here. Like it you create sort of a safe container for people when you take the lead in that department side story.

00;31;01;28 - 00;31;24;15

But I'm a huge fan of UFC and MMA, mixed martial arts, and sometimes in the fighter interviews you'll see these fighters crying after the fights. And it's so interesting to me because these guys are like the most tough alpha male guys, but when they're crying, it's beautiful. They're sharing something that like mood gum or like something in training that happened or something that's going on with their family.

00;31;24;18 - 00;31;51;23

And it's just nice to see that these men who you would never call like a wimp or a whiskey are out there crying openly and everybody is really like, wow, that's that took a lot of courage and a lot of guts. So definitely we need to embrace like if you got to cry, cry it out. Not only is it good for you to do to sort of let out whatever is inside, again, you're you're attracting people who will accept that, and then you're giving people permission for people to do that as well.

00;31;51;25 - 00;32;13;29

So you've been a member of PD since 2021 without giving away the whole secret sauce, what sort of tool would you say or what what area has made the biggest impact for you in personal development school? For me, what got me to sign up for PDS was Tice's content on needs. I still remember I was sitting in my bedroom watching.

00;32;13;29 - 00;32;39;05

I was just a YouTube member back then, just a YouTube subscriber back then. And I remember opening this video where she talked about needs and I was like, Wow, this makes so much sense. I wish someone taught me this in school, right? That I have needs and that kind of forms my identity, my sense of self, and that I'm allowed to advocate for my needs, that I'm allowed to design a life that aligns with my unique set of needs.

00;32;39;12 - 00;33;05;18

So that was a big game changer for me and nothing else I would invite everyone to check out the course of needs and check out webinars. There's multiple webinars that Titus is on personality needs or unique personality needs, and that helps you like really get to know yourself in a deep and intimate way, in my opinion, definitely. And you touched on before career wise, you chose careers that weren't fulfilling or not really, you know, Good for you.

00;33;05;18 - 00;33;25;12

Is that right? Yes, that's that's 100% true, because I used to compare myself to my peers a lot. So it was more like I would look at what society expected me to do versus what drove me as a person. What drives me as a person is emotional connection, social connection. So now I'm like more tapped into those parts of me as a result of that.

00;33;25;14 - 00;33;45;12

Definitely, Yeah. Like it's such a disservice that if you're living for, you know, your parent's wishes or your friend's wishes, you're taking your own specific personality needs and you're saying like, forget about these, these aren't important when really those are the things. If you're fulfilling those, you're going to feel more energy, more connected to people, more on purpose.

00;33;45;12 - 00;34;07;23

Like there's just so many things that come with understanding what your personality needs are and then intentionally filling those needs buckets, as we call them. When those buckets are full. You're just, you know, you're operating at like 100%. Like things are just amazing. And similar to you, I picked so many like school programs and I went in so many directions that were just opposite of my needs.

00;34;07;23 - 00;34;26;00

I didn't know about needs either before. So a lot of like wasted time in school. I have a bachelor's degree in general studies and a college diploma in general studies because I had no clue what I wanted to do. I knew nothing about my needs and what I really wanted. So I just thought, I'll just get these degrees and take a course here and there.

00;34;26;00 - 00;34;47;21

It was pretty funny. I laugh now and you know, no regrets. I still learned a lot, but had I know in my personality structure, I probably would have chosen a different route. But look, it brought me here. So I'm pretty, pretty happy with the way things turned out. So with your training and integrated attachment theory, is there any tool that you find works really well with clients that seems to be really effective?

00;34;47;23 - 00;35;13;00

Yeah, I think again, going back to needs, letting my clients know that they have needs as a person that doesn't make them needy is a huge game changer for them because that way they're able to advocate for themselves in relationship. So for instance, if I'm working with an AP, I know for a fact that emotional validation is very important to them and I'll make it okay for them to go and ask for that in a relationship context.

00;35;13;00 - 00;35;35;13

So it's okay for for you to go and ask your partner or your mom or your dad or your friends and be like, Hey, like whenever I share something with you, it's important to me that to validate what my experiences and that helps me feel more connected in this relationship. So the script that I just shared is something that I learned in PDFs and at the training as well, the coach training as well.

00;35;35;20 - 00;35;55;15

So giving that tool to your clients is very powerful because that gives them the ability to feel seen and connected in their relationships. And the other thing I want to touch on is also is kind of related to communication, but it's like conflict, communication, conflict resolution skills. You know, it's just so funny that none of this is taught in school.

00;35;55;15 - 00;36;22;17

I wish all of this was like taught in school, college over and over and in our family settings too. I think we're just taught to push things under the rug, just avoid having conflict. Let's not talk about it right. You either give the other person the silent treatment or you just yell at them. But Tai has like a really nice framework for working with conflict, and it's really through rupture and repair that we grow closer to the other person.

00;36;22;17 - 00;36;50;28

Right? And we need those experiences that, like you said, it's really like, you know, it moves a relationship from conditional love to unconditional love when you communicate through conflict. So that is really, I think, a game changer for my clients and for, you know, people in general when they embark on conflict resolution and had the courage to work through conflict with their partners absolutely so beautiful.

00;36;51;01 - 00;37;09;16

So in Russia, as a former anxious, preoccupied who's done a lot of work on your own healing, what message of hope and inspiration would you give someone who might have just learned about their attachment style recently and they're a little nervous to do the work? What would you say to somebody like that about the journey, the upcoming journey and maybe what to expect?

00;37;09;18 - 00;37;36;25

Well, to my dear AP or ever say or day or whoever it is that's watching, my message would be it's easy to kind of see healing as this one other thing to do. You know, it could be like a thing to do on your to do list that you need to check off. But I would invite you take different perspective on healing, see it really as this beautiful relationship that you're embarking on, almost like a romantic relationship, obviously.

00;37;36;25 - 00;38;02;04

Now, this time around, the person is zero. Right. And I would invite you to kind of pull up like maybe a picture of yourself, a baby picture of yourself and kind of look into their eyes and try to like see yourself from a fresh perspective. And that's what I did personally, because what happens is, as we go through life, we get a lot of conditioning around having to prove ourselves to people.

00;38;02;04 - 00;38;40;17

And beneath all of that, I think healing is really like a lot of unconditional work. It's really like peeling back those layers that got pulled on ourselves as we went through life. And when we take those layers off and we take that shell of underneath it all is your true self. Underneath it all is your inner child. And so I would invite you to kind of look at healing that way versus like a transactional process where you're like, Oh, I need to heal my attachment style so I can stay in a relationship with my idea or I can attract this other person into my life, see it more of as this romantic, beautiful adventure that

00;38;40;17 - 00;38;59;27

you embark on. So that would be my piece of advice to any apps that are watching. And the thing about this is like healing is not linear. It's not like you do A and B and you get C. It is really a lifelong journey and it is a practice of self connection. And connection comes so naturally to all of that.

00;38;59;27 - 00;39;22;09

So you can't go wrong with it. You can go wrong with connecting to your heart space. It's almost like, you know, when you look at the sunset, you're like, It's all of it. And it's like kind of bringing back that all into your life where you are like looking at yourself from that place of like when you look at a baby, you're full with all this kind of like the same type of relationship that you start developing with yourself.

00;39;22;12 - 00;39;50;07

I love that. That's super inspiring. Thank you so much for sharing that and I always say it's a matter of like you're not building and adding all these like crazy new skills. You came into this world pure and good enough and not defective. And like there's a million things. You're just this loving creature that comes into the world and is because of our circumstances, situations, upbringing and things that come to our life that we sort of add on these negative beliefs and they sort of stick.

00;39;50;09 - 00;40;13;27

So what we're doing now is sort of stripping that away and going back to the amazing perfect, conditionally deserving to be loved person that we are. I love saying that process sort of in a reverse way. That's like how you put that. Okay. So as we come to the end of the interview, I just want to ask, are there any like non-negotiable rituals that you do every day to keep yourself in a balanced and grounded place?

00;40;13;29 - 00;40;38;03

Yeah, One thing I do on a daily basis, I take myself out of a walk and I speak to myself. I speak to my inner child. So I'll ask myself questions like, Hey, like what did you like about today? What were some moments of glimmer? What lit you up today? And that really helps me get in touch with my heart space because we're always working out of our minds.

00;40;38;03 - 00;40;59;28

We're always like stuck in our thinking a lot. So having that practice connects me to my heart, connects me to my inner child. And the other thing that I've kind of made a point that I do, it's like I forgive myself every time I make a mistake. I make sure that I have that as part of my daily ritual, where I tell myself, it's okay if you mess up.

00;41;00;02 - 00;41;18;02

And one thing that I came up with and I just recently made a podcast about that too, I am daring myself to be imperfect, so I call this my personal dare to be imperfect challenge. So even while I was preparing for this podcast, you know, I have like a million things I thought I wanted to talk about, but I was like, You know what?

00;41;18;02 - 00;41;43;02

I'm just going to show up as me. And if I fumble my words, I'm going to let myself do that because it's my energy that's going to talk right at the end of the day. So I would invite people to do something similar to that as well. I love that. And that's almost the perfectionist work is to go out and make mistakes, screw up, make mistakes, make the wrong choice, and just to prove to yourself that, like, it's not the end of the world, you're still a great person.

00;41;43;02 - 00;42;05;29

You're human and you need to give yourself leeway because everyone makes mistakes. There's just no way around it. And then I love how you you said you go on your walk and you sort of highlight the best parts of your day or things that you did. Well, again, this sort of puts our focus muscle onto those things. So then we're naturally going to try to look out for those things, even not really paying attention to it subconsciously.

00;42;05;29 - 00;42;24;13

If you keep doing that over and over, we're going to sort of tip the scale into looking at what's going well in the day instead of looking at what's going bad or what's wrong. So that walk that you do every day sounds like it would be super beneficial. Okay. So lastly, I wanted to ask what services are you offering these days?

00;42;24;20 - 00;42;50;19

So I'm a life coach who offers one on one coaching for anyone going through anxiety, grief, perfectionism, codependency, a painful breakup. I love working with impacts, especially since I'm an impact myself. I'm also, like I said earlier, starting a support group coaching for those that are going through a breakup or need help walking away from a situation because like I said earlier, it can really be like an addiction.

00;42;50;21 - 00;43;12;22

And the call to go back is really, really strong, right? And keeping that door shut is super hard because these days we have our phones and people can always text us, whatever. And before we know it, we're find ourselves texting this person again. So I just crave that as a person when I was going through my breakup. So I am kind of in the process of building a community like that.

00;43;12;25 - 00;43;36;17

And also I'm building an agency support group. So as each of these, as we go through life, as we touched on earlier, we feel like we don't fit in and we really need help feeling understood and feeling connected in relationships. So I help ages. Please advocate for themselves and relationships feel understood, and also be surrounded by like minded people who like having deep conversations.

00;43;36;20 - 00;44;10;17

Wow, that's amazing. And I just wanted to give you a shout out in Russia. We used to have what's called a community Q&A in person, and I'm in school. We have so many different like events and weekly routines that we offer students. And community Q&A was one that I hosted and Russia would come pretty much every class. And basically what we do is someone comes to the class with like an issue or a problem or a situation they're having, and then we get the community to answer and use some of their sort of knowledge and skills that they've picked up along the way to help support someone who's going through this.

00;44;10;23 - 00;44;26;15

And Rochelle would be there every class and have her hand up like so many times. And you were just so good at like holding space for people and just letting them know some practical steps they can do to feel better or to sort of improve the situation. So that's why I was like super excited to have you on today.

00;44;26;19 - 00;44;42;22

I was like, Oh, she's so good at like helping others and sort of knowing where people might not be seeing what they don't see and offering different perspectives. So I just wanted to give you a shout out for that and all those things you mentioned. I know that you're probably such a benefit to your clients and to future clients as well.

00;44;42;24 - 00;44;58;26

Thank you so much, Mike. I really, really appreciate that. That's like we'll bring you to tears right now. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Okay. Lastly, how can people get a hold of you? Where might they find your social media, your YouTube? Where can people find you? Yeah, you can always email me for a one on one coaching group.

00;44;58;26 - 00;45;31;03

Coaching. My email is my first name, which is and as a Nancy, are OSHA too 6 to 7 at gmail.com. And my website is and as a New York life coaching dot com. And I also just started a podcast and YouTube boat with the same name. It's called Deep Conversations with Sensitive. And this is where I share raw personal stories about my life because I really believe in the power of stories.

00;45;31;03 - 00;45;57;27

They make you feel less alone because now you're like, Oh, this other person that's going through exactly what I'm going through. So I deeply believe in the power of stories. And also my recent break up pushed me to start writing things that I felt like I had to share with the world. I posted them on Instagram. So my Instagram is New Rochelle, which is my first name, underscore, attachment, underscore life coach so you can find me there.

00;45;57;27 - 00;46;19;08

I'll just post blurbs about like things that are going through in my lives and hopefully you'll be able to relate to them and learn something from that as well. That's great. Thank you so much again, Rochelle, for being here. I enjoyed getting to learn more about you and I hope our viewers and listeners did as well. And I just thank you again for for being here today.