00;00;00;00 - 00;00;08;29

I think the catalyst, though, was the dating relationship that I had back in 2020 because I'd been on a few dates since I've been divorced, but I couldn't understand why I'm still struggling so much just to connect with somebody else.
It really threw me for a loop

00;00;15;26 - 00;01;00;04

Hello and welcome to the Personal Development School Podcast. I am so excited you are here. I am your co-host, Titus Gibson, along with our new special host, Mike Vizio. This is a podcast that discusses everything related to integrated attachment theory. The New attachment theory, along with the subconscious mind relationships, communication needs boundaries and so much more. Throughout this podcast, you'll see a series of episodes I upload with new information, educational tips, all about how to thrive in relationships and really master your emotional state in your life, along with special guests hosted by Mike Zito to discuss all of these amazing topics and longer form content.
Thank you so much for being here and I really hope you enjoy this episode.

00;01;07;11 - 00;01;43;26

Welcome personal development score, podcast listeners, viewers, personal development, school students and members. Everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Interview series. We're going to get right into it. And my guest today struggled for many years with why her romantic relationships have been so difficult, despite the fact that all she ever wanted was to be in one. In summer 2020, she was doing a Google search to find answers for challenges she was experiencing in yet another dating relationship when she discovered the personal annulment school, she found answers she was looking for and a lot more and became a student shortly thereafter.

00;01;43;28 - 00;02;07;24

Fast forward to today. She enjoys dating, meeting new people, and embracing life with the new skills she's learned at personal development school. She loves what she's been learning so much she decided to become an integrated attachment theory coach so she can help others overcome their struggles and have the relationships they always desired. PDFs, viewers and listeners, please help me welcome Crystal McCain.

00;02;07;26 - 00;02;25;23

Hello, Crystal. How you doing today? I'm doing good, Thank you. Excited to be here. Great. Great. So lovely to have you. So, Crystal, if you want to start, just give us a little background briefly about, you know, your back story you could touch on family life growing up. Basically, what sort of brought you to where you are today?

00;02;25;29 - 00;02;46;10

I'll just dive right in. Was like family life growing up. My family really loved them. I grew up in a family. We were always kind of like everyone just kind of kept to themselves in our family, you know, we would do things together, like have game night on Saturday nights and things like that sometimes. But during the week, you know, we're going eat dinner.

00;02;46;12 - 00;03;17;12

Myself, my siblings, my parents, and then everyone kind of go to their own. And I love my family. I noticed that we were just missing some things that other families had, just that closeness, more of a warmth, more about just the ability to connect with one another. And as I grew in my growth journey, I realized that, you know, we did have some generational issues with attachment trauma that had been passed down through the generations.

00;03;17;14 - 00;03;33;13

Sure. Sure. That kind of relates with me and my family, too. Like we would have dinner. We'd almost be like rushing through it so we could finish and then go back to being by ourselves. During dinner, though, is there a lot of like rich conversation or was it a little more quiet and not too many people were sharing openly?

00;03;33;13 - 00;03;49;11

And what was it like for you there? I know you hit the nail on the head. It was you know, it was kind of quiet. We would talk a little bit more surface level things. We wouldn't talk about things that had a lot of depth. And it wasn't too much of asking, like, how was your day and things like that.

00;03;49;17 - 00;04;13;26

So you had a dinner table out of town, was on the quiet side. And when somebody was allowed to or it really annoys here because nobody's nobody's target. Right. Okay. So in your own life, was there a catalyst? You know, you said you saw it on PDS, but like in your own life, was there a catalyst moment, a big realization, just some sort of moment that you had where you're like, I need to sort of dive into my own healing at this moment?

00;04;14;03 - 00;04;41;29

Yes. Well, I had been working on healing my whole life, and I was married in my early thirties and divorced kind of like mid-thirties. And after my divorce, I kind of just really started to dive a little bit more into healing by going to a counselor, as well as reading books. And I just wanted to get to the root of why I struggled so much with relationships that it's a little bit of beginning of that journey.

00;04;42;00 - 00;05;02;07

I think the catalyst, though, was the dating relationship that I had back in 2020, because, you know, I'd been on a few dates since I've been divorced, but I couldn't understand why I'm still struggling so much just to connect with somebody else. It really threw me for a loop and I knew it had something to do with attachment issues.

00;05;02;07 - 00;05;34;20

So I started searching that on the internet and that's when I came up with Tice's videos. And like a lot of us do, I went in and did a big deep dive into a lot of videos on, of course, dismissal, void attachment style, as well as just learning about myself in the process. Sure, sure. Okay. So the divorce was like a big catalyst where you wanted to learn more about yourself, but then would you say it was dating after that really propelled you to want to like, okay, I need to fix these relationship issues, otherwise I'm going to keep sort of experiencing the same kind of problems.

00;05;34;20 - 00;06;00;13

Was it that kind of thing? Yes, absolutely. Because with the divorce, sometimes it's like, okay, well, maybe we did get the wrong partner. Maybe we didn't really talk things through enough or we just missed things. But then I had been dating a little bit after the marriage, and I still felt like I was stuck. I felt like the type of relationship I wanted where you see people and they're happy, they're holding hands, they're lovey dovey.

00;06;00;16 - 00;06;25;00

For some reason, I kept avoiding me and I felt like I just even if I got a different partner, I was going to have the same type of relationship with that date when I was married. Yeah, okay. That makes a lot of sense. You know, when you see it as just a little sidebar, but like, you know, when you're saying you see a lot of people lovey dovey happy was this more like in movies and like shows and all that kind of stuff or literally, were you seeing all your friends and people around you like that was really in your face.

00;06;25;00 - 00;06;47;02

You seemed like people people had these like great, amazing relationships that you wanted to have. Like where were you kind of doing this? Mostly? Yes, definitely. Just like people in my life that you see, they've been married for a long time or not even a long time. But they have a good rich relationship where they're getting along, they can talk things through and they just overall seem happy with one another.

00;06;47;07 - 00;07;05;02

So I know sometimes in movies and things like that, they have that big romantic aspect and it just feels like it's just not genuine. Yeah, I know this is I was definitely looking at relationships that were in my life and why I couldn't have such a thing. Right, Right. Okay. That's awesome. So, Crystal, I was curious, when did you first hear about attachment theory?

00;07;05;02 - 00;07;34;14

Like, was this when you joined personal development school or have you heard of attachment theory a while before that? I heard about attachment theory about maybe 12 years ago. My counselor at the time recommended a book for me that talked about love styles. And so the book talk about a person was more anxious, someone who was more buoyant, someone who's like a mix of both, and then someone who comes from stable relationships and has a more stable emotional background.

00;07;34;16 - 00;07;52;05

So at the time I was seeing someone and I was more a little bit more avoidant and he was a little bit more anxious and it was causing issues. So I didn't realize at the time, though, that this love for book, whether it was really wanting to attach myself and that this was going to be like a huge change for my life.

00;07;52;08 - 00;08;10;18

Right. But I kind of left it and just kind of like, Oh, this is a nice book. And then just didn't realize the impact it was going to have. Yeah, for sure. So I know I see you in person now in school. I know you've done a lot of work on your own attachment style and you touch on already, so you were dismissive, avoidant.

00;08;10;19 - 00;08;31;16

Would you say was that your your dominant attachment style? Yes, absolutely. So now, since I've done work over the years, I think when I came to PDS, I took the test out a little bit more thoroughly. But being a PDS and just it reminded me of when I was like in my twenties and thirties, I'm in my early fifties now, a time when I was more avoidant leaning and struggling with that.

00;08;31;22 - 00;08;56;01

So I think I was more dismissive avoidant with like a little bit of fearful avoidance right then some secure in there too. So with the dismissive avoidant side of things, what were some of the more like more challenging aspects of being sort of in your own healed state and not really knowing what was going on for you? What were some of the challenges there that I just didn't know?

00;08;56;06 - 00;09;22;05

I was trapped in this kind of like place where I felt like no matter what I would do, I can take myself on dates and go out on dates by myself. I can try to maybe connect with my partners better. Different things. I tried. Just nothing really help. So that was like the biggest challenge. I felt like I was getting closer, but I was still so far away from what I wanted in a relationship and how I want it to look.

00;09;22;07 - 00;09;44;04

So the connection aspect you felt like was a missing most like you'd be with these people, but it didn't feel like it was really like connecting or feeling like a loving, open, communicative relationship. Yeah, the love aspect was there, but I felt like it was just kind of disjointed. Like you said, it's just like we we were there, but there were always little issues.

00;09;44;05 - 00;10;06;14

There weren't as much big fight. It's just like just a lack of just having like, like a stable relationship where there's more give and take. It seemed more like I just felt like sometimes it just felt like I wasn't really safe, that I kind of just had to look out for myself a lot. And there's something about that that was just I was like, I know this is not what a relationship is supposed to be like.

00;10;06;15 - 00;10;28;09

Yeah, you So you never felt comfortable where you could fully, like, relax or never felt like you can totally rely on the other person? Was it? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's not a nice feeling for sure. Obviously, like we want connection. Sometimes it feels good to be with someone, but if we're not feeling that sense of confidence, they're going to be there for us.

00;10;28;11 - 00;10;47;13

That can create a lot of anxiety, right? So definitely. Okay, So what are some examples of issues like specific issues you want to mention? What would happen like over and over? Would you find so the relationship to start off strong? Yeah, well, we would somehow get just stuck and we had trouble agreeing. I would want things a certain way in my partner.

00;10;47;13 - 00;11;03;27

One things the other way, and somehow we just didn't have that ability. We didn't have the words to meet in the middle. We didn't have the skills to say, okay, we'll do it halfway this time. Or, you know, you can have your way this time and the next time I have my way. It just seemed like it was like always like a standstill.

00;11;04;00 - 00;11;23;24

Right, Right. It wouldn't get resolved. And I'd like. You'd probably, like, just go away from each other because you're not agreed. Right? And then the things would get swept under the rug and just not resolve. But somewhere inside of me, I knew that these things are an issue and I'm not getting what I want. And sometimes my partner probably wasn't getting what they want as well.

00;11;24;01 - 00;11;50;06

I think that's a common theme, obviously with avoidant relationships, kind of like sweeping things under the rug. It feels more comfortable in the moment to not have the vulnerable conversations, but really the long term sort of you get short term relief by not talking about it, but the long term damage is what accumulates. And it's it's almost impossible to sustain a relationship if you are not being vulnerable and having those conversations time to time.

00;11;50;08 - 00;12;08;05

I'm not going to say they're easy. I come from a more avoidant background and even to this day, like I try my best to do them, but they're still awkward. And if you saw me during a vulnerable conversation, you'd probably laugh because like, making eye contact is like so hard it just doesn't come out very smooth and easy.

00;12;08;11 - 00;12;31;21

But I do know that I've seen my relationships change because I'm being vulnerable. And it may not look perfect, but it's 100% better than not saying anything, right? So cheers to avoidant people opening up and trying to be vulnerable. So then what's been one of your biggest areas of inner growth in healing your attachment style? So many areas of growth.

00;12;31;22 - 00;12;49;19

There's so many just amazing things that I learned in kids. And then I think I'll just mention a couple that I usually tell people about, and it's the boundaries. When I paint a PDF, I knew, absolutely knew that I had to work on boundaries. I knew I was good at the big boundaries. You know, you can say no.

00;12;49;19 - 00;13;12;21

I was pretty good at saying, you know, I needed to be left alone and things like that. But it was those midway boundaries, like when I'm having a conversation with somebody and these things are like light bulb moments when I learn them and when you talk them to us. And if I'm explaining something and if they're kind of explaining it back or just saying it back to me and they maybe they said it wrong, it's for me to stop and say, Oh, wait, no, it's not actually this.

00;13;12;22 - 00;13;30;26

This is what I'm trying to convey. And that is just like making a world of a difference and helping need to be seen and understood. Because before I would just not say anything and because I didn't want to interrupt the person and then I felt bad that I wasn't explaining it the right way. And so now they're misunderstanding it.

00;13;31;01 - 00;13;54;06

Those little boundaries, those day to day boundaries, is one thing that helped me a lot. That's amazing. And just to share, I know for myself too, like setting boundaries before was extremely scary. So probably when you think you're going to set a boundary like that and you think all you're going to offend the other person or whatever, but can you share with our audience sort of in you doing that, how does generally the other person react or take it?

00;13;54;08 - 00;14;13;24

You know what, Mike, I was just so amazed when I started giving these boundaries because people are actually willing to do what you say and it's so amazing. But it's happens sometimes. I tell the person, if you could maybe please call me back in 24 to 48 hours, I'd really appreciate that. And people actually do it so it's not so scary.

00;14;13;24 - 00;14;42;12

And sometimes they don't always do it. But a lot of times people do because they care and they want us to be happy. So they actually do meet our boundaries. Exactly. Yeah. I'm just not going to say everybody reacts perfectly, but it's sort of in your delivery and your tone. If you're saying it just in a way that this is how I want to be treated or Hey, can I request this instead of that that is usually received with the other person wanting to make you happy or make sure that like, Oh yeah, sure.

00;14;42;12 - 00;15;05;16

Like generally if somebody is interested in a relationship with you, if you set a boundary in a respectful way, they're going to want to honor that because they appreciate your friendship and they want to stay friends with you. So yeah, I'm glad you just sort of we pointed that out because I know, like, it can be so scary and you think that people are going to react badly or maybe not want to be friends with you anymore, but that's really not the case.

00;15;05;16 - 00;15;29;12

Like I said, people generally are are not bad at receiving a boundary that set And last thing to mention it is a skill. Like if it's something that you weren't taught in childhood, it will feel so foreign and uncomfortable and scary, frankly, scary for a lot of people. If they try to set a boundary in childhood, they probably got punished or screamed at or something really uncomfortable.

00;15;29;14 - 00;15;53;09

So just know in adulthood, if you don't have that skill, it's not like you can never develop it. It's a skill just like any other that you have to start small and sort of build on it and and don't give up right. I'm really happy for you that you improved that area. Thank you. I just wanted to add another thing with the boundaries is just when you come from a background where you're kind of told children should be seen and not heard, yeah.

00;15;53;11 - 00;16;11;08

When you finally can say your boundaries, when they come up, it helps you to feel seen and feel heard. And that part of you from when you were younger and weren't heard is now being heard. And it just helps with the growth so much by knowing that I can stand up for myself now and say what I need to say.

00;16;11;13 - 00;16;28;24

And you know, and people I can see if they're going to meet the boundary. Maybe sometimes they can't, and maybe it's a person who is choosing not to meet the boundaries for whatever reason. Then maybe that's a person that maybe I shouldn't have in my life. So boundaries can show us and help us see so many different things.

00;16;28;26 - 00;16;57;29

100%. Very well. But so for days, I guess you're speaking on behalf of the audience here. What are the most important things for a day or avoidant leaning person to focus on in their healing? I would say starting off, just taking the time to slow down and connect with our bodies, what we're feeling, the sensations getting used to and being comfortable with emotions.

00;16;58;01 - 00;17;20;05

So as those emotions come up, as we kind of start by just noticing different sensations, maybe if we're having like a tingling sensation or if we're having like a burning sensation in our stomach or whatever is coming up, just noticing those and then just being comfortable with them and letting them be. And we can start off small and we make a mistake.

00;17;20;05 - 00;17;40;01

And so this doesn't feel good. I want to stop that. Just give it a try again later. It's progress and over time we get more comfortable with it. Definitely starting by connecting with emotions and then maybe listening to others and just being present for them. I would shut stuff down. Sometimes if I'm in a rush, I would shut myself down.

00;17;40;01 - 00;17;59;20

Things that are coming up for me, I would shut down what the other person is saying, but just just being present and letting the conversation flow. I think a big thing too, is to not feel trapped. I had to work on my I am trapped for womb. I didn't know that existed until I came to peace, but I no longer feel trapped in conversations.

00;17;59;22 - 00;18;23;20

So if I'm talking to somebody and maybe they're asking me to do something I don't want to do or I can't do, maybe I can't, I'm so comfortable now telling them, you know, I would love to help you with this. I would love to help you study, but I can't right now. There are all these things that are coming up, but I do have some time to date and I'd love to sit down and like two days from now for about an hour and help you with your studying.

00;18;23;23 - 00;18;44;20

So just knowing that it's not just a flat. No, but taking myself into consideration if I can't right away, and also letting the other person know that this is what I can't do, because what we avoid is we just kind of want to like it's easy to shut stuff down, push it down, push away, push away the other person absolute no, but there is that.

00;18;44;20 - 00;19;04;28

Yeah, but there is that middle ground. So it's just, you know, being aware that the middle ground is there and it being okay using it. So if I get one more thing for this myth of avoidance is and that is the and I can't think of the name of it right now, but it's the where we gradually bring something into our lives that we are trying to to kind of be comfortable with.

00;19;04;28 - 00;19;29;17

I can't think of the name of the train. You might know the name now, but so bringing something in if we want to try something new. So for instance, say we want to pick up more in an office meeting or say we want to speak up more at a family gathering is just to start off small. Maybe you would speak up at a smaller gathering and then over time learning to speak up, practicing speaking up more.

00;19;29;22 - 00;19;46;20

So it's just that the gradual bringing in of things is kind of like eating an elephant one bite at a time. We don't want to tackle the whole thing because again, sometimes we it's avoidance. We think, I really can't do this, but maybe there's a way we can break it down into smaller pieces. Oh, I love that. That's amazing.

00;19;46;26 - 00;20;04;22

I want to comment on the thing you said before about flat nose days are pretty good. I like saying no and like, no. I don't want to do that. Like, a lot of times ideas are like a low level fighter flight, so they don't have a lot of like gifts in them. You know, they're a little more concerned when you're worried about your own sort of survival.

00;20;04;25 - 00;20;21;11

You're not really in the most giving mood. So so they can kind of be seen as selfish, but really it's more of like a survival or perceived survival mechanism. But I like how you said about you don't have to be worried about people trying to take from you all the time. And if you can't do it at that moment, that's okay.

00;20;21;14 - 00;20;41;02

But maybe be open to giving when you do. Are feeling a little more better in a couple of days. But I do know that reaction to where it's like if somebody asks for anything right away, I might ask like, Jesus, who's going to take time and energy? Like, I would just be not having it. But then I also have this side of me that loves helping people, right?

00;20;41;02 - 00;20;59;17

So instead of just shutting things down right away at least consider how do I feel right now in the moment? Okay, maybe I don't feel like I want to give right now, but then maybe in a couple days from now, I think that's where you're going with that and the exposure response, I think you're talking about like exposure response, and that's such an important tool as well.

00;20;59;21 - 00;21;27;23

I know before I would go to parties and social gatherings, I'd be really nervous and alcohol is pretty much like mandatory. But when I stopped drinking a few years ago, going to parties sober was like really challenging, but bit by bit, time by time. And what's important is not only trying it, but then after like celebrating the little mini victories that you had, because a lot of times we can go and focus on what didn't go well.

00;21;28;00 - 00;21;57;08

Oh, I was pretty awkward in that interaction, or I felt a little uncomfortable when I was talking to so-and-so. But look at the big picture. Like you showed up. You didn't have a drink. Like there's so many wins to be picked out when you're trying to improve yourself. So we definitely need to focus on take small steps forward and also take inventory of the small steps that you've taken forward because it's those small steps that sort of add up to the whole growth.

00;21;57;10 - 00;22;01;29

It's, you know, we don't see the growth if we're not looking at all the small steps, right?

00;22;01;29 - 00;22;22;09

So after conducting many polls and surveys at the personal development school over the past few years, we have found that students come in and 92% of them become dominantly securely attached within 90 days. If they focus on six crucial areas, the six crucial areas have to do with what it takes to become secure.

00;22;22;11 - 00;22;50;26

According to Gibson Integrated Attachment Theory. And this is to tackle core wounds, learn your needs, learn to emotionally regulate, develop boundaries, communicate better, and update old behavioral coping mechanisms. Now we have these roadmaps and course tracks laid out for you on the other side of when you join. So everything is simple and in front of you to help you take exactly the steps that you need to to master your love life, create thriving relationships, and really see the results in your healing journeys.

00;22;50;27 - 00;23;16;05

You can let go of old wounds, old baggage, and truly leave it behind. And on top of that, included in this 30% off promotion for life, you also gain access to our Daily Live Events webinar is I'll be there three days a week to answer any questions that you have in your journey. And we have amazing certified integrated attachment theory experts who are there to support you with their daily live events and webinars Monday through Saturday.

00;23;16;07 - 00;23;38;19

And this is a great opportunity to connect with like minded people to get your questions answered and receive any extra bonus support that you need. And last but not least, we even have social events on a daily basis so you can practice through sharing circle being a little bit more vulnerable, connecting with other like minded people. You can practice through communication scripts, having tough conversations and really modeling that out.

00;23;38;19 - 00;23;57;04

And there are so many other supportive events that are there for you on your journey. So I'd love for you to join and take this opportunity. I would love for you to be part of this challenge, to become securely attached within that 90 day period. And I can't wait to see you on the other side. So, Crystal, you've been a member of PDC now for a number of years.

00;23;57;04 - 00;24;20;18

What would you say is your favorite tool or like teaching or what's something that's really stuck with you that's helped you at the personal development school? I guess for tools is the exposure response therapy that we just mentioned. One big Eyeopener for me, though, absolutely was just knowing about personality needs as a day. I kind of know I need air, food and water and things like that, right?

00;24;20;21 - 00;24;40;03

But then there's so many other things that we can have in our personality. We actually need things like achievement, things like playfulness, things like to be seen and be heard. And as a day, those things are inside of us and they need to be nurtured. And I didn't realize that achievement was such an important thing for me until I looked at the inventory.

00;24;40;05 - 00;25;06;10

The needs list. I was like, Oh wow, yeah, I do resonate with that. Things like acceptance, especially as a dismissive, dismissive avoidance, really like accept it so the needs live and then there was one core wound that really I mentioned earlier. It's just I am trapped. And one day Ty said something to me that again, which is eye opening, and she said that a lot of times we feel trapped because we're trapping ourselves.

00;25;06;12 - 00;25;27;19

And I was just like, Oh, wow. And I just had to really pause there for a bit and take in a lot because I realized there were decisions I was making where I really was kind of boxing myself in this corner. Sometimes this myth of avoidance can maybe come across as stubborn. I don't know. Yeah. And so because not all maybe, but that resonates with me for sure.

00;25;27;25 - 00;25;48;04

Because we may be kind of limited in the things we can do or we are wanting to do. But when that I am trapped in hearing that I'm trapped because I'm trapping myself, I look inside, Yeah, sometimes I make decisions and I feel like it's only one way to go. But now I learned that I have to open things up and make it broader and look at other possibilities.

00;25;48;04 - 00;26;06;04

And it doesn't have to just be one way. So for instance, when I think of career, I would feel trapped sometimes because I felt kind of maybe in the past career stuck in something I didn't want to do or maybe stuck in a job that I didn't want to be at. But one day I just had this revelation that, you know what?

00;26;06;04 - 00;26;25;21

I'm not trapped because right now I can get up and stand up and walk out of this job on the spot. And I don't have to be here if I don't want to. And that helped me so much with knowing that I am not trapped because I can. I have the power to make the choices and make decisions that I want to make so that I don't have to feel that way.

00;26;25;23 - 00;26;42;10

So that was something that was like really, really major for me. Now, I was actually thinking this at a job that I had. I was thinking, I am trapped. I think, no, I can actually stand up and walk out. I didn't, but I felt so much better when I was at work thinking this and just reminding myself that I can go anytime if I want to.

00;26;42;10 - 00;27;04;11

I can pursue a new career path. I can leave this job, give two weeks notice, I can do whatever I want to do. So that was another thing that was very helpful. That's huge. Yeah. You feel when people feel I am trapped and they're stuck, there's such fear and like, probably like a visceral reaction of thinking, Oh my gosh, this is what my life's going to be like from now until like, the end of my life.

00;27;04;13 - 00;27;25;14

But then you having this perspective, even if you're in a role that you don't love to be like, I'm not drop. Yeah, I'm here right now. But really, at any point in time I can make the decision to get up and leave or start looking for another job. I know it's not always easy and you can get really comfortable and stuck in your routines and worried about, well, what if I don't find another job?

00;27;25;17 - 00;27;43;04

But yeah, at the end of the day, it's sort of a mental construct to think that you're trapped and stuck in a job. Right? It's actually funny though, like, how could you ever be trapped? Like, nobody's nobody has a gun to your head at the start of it is like, okay, 8 hours, let's go. But I love that perspective.

00;27;43;04 - 00;28;00;12

Sometimes it's just feeling like I'm not good enough to do something else, to do another career or profession so that this is my lot in life and it has to be so. And these are the voices sometimes, you know, that we have inside of us that know it's not true, and these are wounds that we need to heal totally.

00;28;00;12 - 00;28;17;02

That's so true. I think that keeps a lot of people stuck. They think, okay, like I have a job now, I'm competent at it. I know I can do the tasks that are required every day. But with this new job that I haven't gotten yet, who knows? Maybe I'll fail. Maybe I will be good enough. Then I'll be unemployed.

00;28;17;02 - 00;28;36;24

And, you know, you just kind of go down the rabbit hole. But if you kind of look back at your life and all of the things that you've thought you can do but then did it, why wouldn't that be the case for the future? You'd last to hear how many different jobs that I've had throughout my life, and I'm sure each one I had like super duper anxiety on day one.

00;28;36;26 - 00;28;55;05

And then after two or three, four weeks, like it wasn't even an issue. Right? I think we all need to give ourselves more credit for what we can accomplish and then double down. If you are doing something that you love and you're purposeful and passionate about, then don't even worry about it. Like you're going to make that work no matter what.

00;28;55;07 - 00;29;24;18

Okay, so switching over to relationships, I just want to ask you, like, what would you think is one of the most important things to keep relationships in a healthy place and not just let things go on autopilot? Definitely communication, just so important. Communication. Checking in with your partner if they're doing something small that irritates us and maybe we can check and let them know, hey, when you roll the toothpaste tube the wrong way or whatever, it really bothers me.

00;29;24;19 - 00;29;50;17

Just want to let you know and seeing if there's something that can be worked out about that maybe the toilet paper roll is a better example. But just talking to our partners, whatever we're experiencing on the inside, letting them know about it, even when it's scary. So if, for instance, our partner is maybe they're making the coffee and it's too strong, but we don't want to hurt their feelings because they're putting in more effort, it's just letting them know, Hey, I love that you're doing that.

00;29;50;19 - 00;30;14;20

The coffee's a little too strong. It'd be great if we could just make it this way instead, checking in with them to see how they're feeling as well. The partner comes home from work one day and say they're feeling kind of down and glum, you know, checking in with them later, especially. We're having a bad day, too, not letting both people have like bad time, which can kind of maybe lead to fight and stuff later.

00;30;14;20 - 00;30;33;27

So definitely communication that and also the way you put that was so, so eloquent. You know, like if you're just requesting, hey, like love that you're making coffee, that's so sweet, but it's just a little strong just hearing that. I can't imagine too many people being like, Oh, how dare you say that? How do you complain about strong coffee?

00;30;33;29 - 00;30;53;20

So delivery obviously is huge. But number two, like you're giving the other person sort of the the vibe that it's okay to, to make requests and healthy requests if something is not agreeing with you, you know, so it sort of is like a two way street and you're you're opening that up. If you are able to do that with your partner, that's wonderful.

00;30;53;22 - 00;31;12;26

I think just accepting our partners, too, that they're not going to be perfect, that we all have little quirks and things. So just accepting those things and really hearing our partner out because sometimes I think we get in relationships and there's things we want to tell the other partner, but maybe we're ashamed to really show them our inner self.

00;31;12;28 - 00;31;39;07

So maybe if one partner initiates, hey, you know, I did something today that just really wasn't I really wasn't proud of, but I just want to share it with you because I want you to know I'm not perfect. I went and maybe, for instance, I had to get up in front of a meeting at work and I had this big wadded toilet paper stuck to my shoe, you know, just share anything so that we can be more human and know that we're going to make mistakes and that we have quirks and that we're not perfect, but just there's acceptance.

00;31;39;07 - 00;31;56;24

Oh, yeah. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I know you're great. You know, we can tell our partner I'm sorry you had that. You know, a lot of paper stuff to issue, but I imagine you gave a great speech at work, so just acceptance. Yeah, well, I love that. And it's so nice when you feel accepted by your partner, Then it just makes you want to open up more and more and more.

00;31;56;24 - 00;32;20;22

And obviously, the more that you show yourself, the better you feel. If there's shame or you're hiding yourself, it almost feels like you're not living a lie. But it's uncomfortable because you're having a sort of second mind self-conscious and worried like, Oh, I can't say that. Or I don't want to show that it takes energy. But if you're just open and free and get to share, you know what's going on for you in your inner environment, that's a gift.

00;32;20;25 - 00;32;47;28

And if you can be that for someone else, that's that's such a gift. And again, this is probably it's hits a lot home for me and you because being more avoidant the I am defective or there's something wrong with me like those types of not acceptance wounds or present so I think we're a little more extra sensitive. So I don't know about you, but yeah, if I meet somebody who feels like just a non judgmental person, I'm like, I feel so good around them or like, Wow, this is amazing.

00;32;47;28 - 00;33;09;08

I could say anything they don't even like bad. And I. I love that. Yes, I love that. Even now, being more healed. Yeah. When people are more accepting like we're not perfect, they are just okay with that and they're looking at us as a person that this is not right. And so that really feels good. And even now I'm still drawn to people who are like really kind of unconditionally accepting of me.

00;33;09;11 - 00;33;32;02

Right, Right. Probably my anxious types are really, really good that way. They're really kind of like to see the good in people and to look for human aspects and try to see the good parts and not focus on the bad parts. Yeah, yeah, that's great. So then as far as like your current sort of relationships, friends, families, romantic relationships, what are some of like the biggest changes you see now?

00;33;32;05 - 00;33;59;17

Or on the flip side, what are some things that you don't put up with that you might have put up with before? Okay, listen, good questions there. I think now I'll have the second one. First things that I don't put up with. I feel like now when I find any type of relationship that could be coworker, relationship, friendship, whatever, if I feel like just we're not clicking, then I just kind of I try to let the person know I'm not feeling the strongest about our relationship.

00;33;59;17 - 00;34;18;20

Here are some things that I think could improve it, but more so than that, if I feel like I need to walk away from a relationship, then I am okay doing that. And I haven't always been that way. I kind of keep people around, but sometimes I have to say, you know, this is not that the know your personality needs aren't lining up.

00;34;18;20 - 00;34;40;08

Maybe our goals, our visions. And, you know, we're really stuck. And we can we can see we can work it out. But if not, I'm comfortable walking away. So changes for the better. I'm really so much comfortable in my own skin when I deal with friends, family and others as a dismissive avoidant, especially years ago, more so when I was in my twenties and thirties, I always kind of struggled with, you know, am I going to say the right thing?

00;34;40;10 - 00;35;00;28

How is this going to come across? Because coming out from that environment where children should be seen and not heard, you're not comfortable speaking in front of others. So it takes time to get to that point. It takes practice where you're comfortable talking to others. I think a lot of the communication scripts have definitely helped. That tell you gives us practicing with others definitely more comfortable.

00;35;00;28 - 00;35;17;11

The boundaries I mentioned earlier and just just interacting. I'm not is afraid anymore and talking to somebody that they're somehow going to take advantage of me. And that was a big thing in the past. It's like, okay, because I didn't know how to define myself as far as boundaries and say, okay, no, I'm sorry, we really can't do that.

00;35;17;17 - 00;35;44;23

But now I'm comfortable getting in situations and then let's see what happens. And if it doesn't work out, I can say, you know what? I'm sorry. This really isn't for me. Thank you for everything. But I. I'm going to have to choose something else. So that's one thing that's been huge for me. That's amazing. You strengthen your self trust because a lot of times we're scared of getting into situations because we think if things don't go the way we want, we might be trapped and won't know how to sort of navigate our way out of that.

00;35;44;26 - 00;36;02;19

But if you build sort of that self trust that I'm not going to abandon myself, I'm going to communicate if I need to, I'm going to remove myself from a situation that's unhealthy, that gives you self trust where you're like, yeah, I can I can engage with anybody because I'm going to be the one to decide if this person is good for me or not good for me.

00;36;02;25 - 00;36;19;26

And I'm not going to stick around for years and years. If it's an unhealthy dynamic. So that's wonderful. Crystal, does this notion that first thing I totally resonate where you say if you're not clicking with someone you like, kind of continue to hang around and try to make it work? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I was the master of that for me.

00;36;19;26 - 00;36;39;19

Like if somebody didn't like me or I saw we weren't clicking, I was like, They're going to like me. Like I would try my best to like, just just throw the kitchen sink at them to be like, I'm going to make them like me. Like we're not clicking because they haven't seen yet how awesome I am. And it would I'd use much energy trying to like make them like me.

00;36;39;19 - 00;37;01;04

And to a certain extent I got a lot of people to like me. But you can imagine the price that that came at. I was constantly manipulating myself and, you know, changing myself through these other people. I used to have a million friends and I guess that felt nice to be liked by a lot of people. But man, I'll come home at the end of the day and I'll just be like, so tired.

00;37;01;07 - 00;37;29;22

Be like, okay, this is not something's got to change. This is this is not good. So I love that you change that for yourself as well. And you now know, like if something's not clicking and you've you've tried, there is a point where you're like, let's, let's move on. So, Crystal, just to switch gears a bit, we like to get an inside look at what guests are doing to sort of take care of themselves on a day to day basis in the hopes to inspire people, listeners for ideas of what to do in their own life.

00;37;29;25 - 00;37;50;24

So I'll start by asking you, do you have any sort of like daily rituals or like non-negotiables that you do every day that sort of overall leads to feeling good and feeling grounded? Yes. So I've got a couple of things My absolute must have is going out outside walking in the evening. So I go out for like an hour, hour and a half.

00;37;50;27 - 00;38;15;15

But it's not just the walk because near my house and not too far away is this huge, gorgeous pond with a huge walking path all the way around it. And it's just so beautiful and serene. There's gorgeous trees, cherry blossoms, like in the springtime, roses, all kinds of animals, the ducks, the geese. There's toads, there's turtles, it's rabbit, there's people pushing their strollers, walking their dogs, things like that.

00;38;15;18 - 00;38;33;12

And so the whole environment is just so kind of like calming and relaxing. So whatever my day is, and I can tell when I first get out there, like I'm a little bit more uptight, but after a few laps each lap like 12 minutes or so, so I'd be maybe like four laps. I know that I'm more calm at the end and that's like an absolute blast happened.

00;38;33;12 - 00;38;51;00

I know when I missed days walking, I can really tell the difference. Really? After the snap. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. During those walks, are you just very present with what's going on? Are you also like sort of checking in with yourself and maybe reviewing your day or like thinking about, Oh, what what do I want to do coming up?

00;38;51;02 - 00;39;09;17

Like, is there sort of a process or is it just you're just literally enjoying the nature walk? Yeah, I try to, especially when I know I really need it. If it's a stressful day, be present with the environment taking things in because it does help me shift gears from more stressful to kind of noticing what's in front of me.

00;39;09;19 - 00;39;31;01

There's also like a waterfall, a couple. So to me it's like fountain. Yes, you can hear the smashing of the water, which helps calm things down. So I definitely am in touch with the environment. I'm also processing different things that went on during the day. Maybe I could have done things differently. And I notice if I'm thinking something about A that like ruminating about it, that usually for me, me, there's a boundary I need to put up.

00;39;31;01 - 00;39;58;18

So that's one thing I've noticed in those what that means there's a boundary that needs to be put up. So yeah, sometimes I'm on the phone too, but I try to be mindful of that so that I don't shut down from myself and that it's important to connect with the environment 100%. Yeah. If we're just sort of it's tempting sometimes to go home and just go like right into your phone and maybe watch YouTube videos, Netflix, whatever it is, sort of like almost enter just entertainment and not really spending that time with ourselves.

00;39;58;21 - 00;40;27;00

It sounds like that walk that you go on is really valuable because, you know, your day might have been so busy and outwardly focused, but that's your time to kind of calm down, be a little more present with yourself, and you probably get some important messages from that when you're doing that walk. Yeah, absolutely. And the second thing that I do, another thing I do is, especially when I was working full time, is I would set timers on my alarm to go off during the day so I can check in with myself and my emotions.

00;40;27;08 - 00;40;49;29

So I'd have like a morning alarm and afternoon alarm and the alarm. And so if it's busy at work, if I'm like wrapped up in something, I just pause for a moment and notice how I feel. So my feeling anxious and stressed, am I feeling like I want to shut down? Am I feeling happy? So just kind of noticing during the day, making sure I paused to notice the emotions because it's easy, especially when you're multitasking to really shut yourself out.

00;40;50;06 - 00;41;09;26

But this allows me to be more present with myself and know what I'm feeling and kind of make a plan that I need to work on some processing later. Make a plan to do that later. Yeah, no, that's a wonderful idea. And especially for an avoidant to who might be disconnected with their body and their feelings and sort of almost like intentionally ignore them.

00;41;09;28 - 00;41;30;16

This sets an alarm or you're going to look at them and spoke. How do I feel right now? What's going on for me? What do I need? And the more you do that, the more you sort of start to develop that two way conversation with your emotions and and your mind. And really, as we know, emotions are just giving us feedback to, Hey, there's something going on here.

00;41;30;16 - 00;42;03;18

There's either need that's unmet or there's a story in our mind that's creating uncomfortableness. We might be criticizing ourselves, or maybe we're looking at a situation and saying in a really negative way, like, Oh, I'm so alone because I'm a loser or I'm not good enough, or nobody really likes me. You know, you're telling us all these stories, so of course your body's going to be trying to snap you out of it and be like, Hey, like, we're going to keep sending you these signals if you're going to keep sort of playing these uncomfortable stories in your mind.

00;42;03;18 - 00;42;21;07

So it's sort of like a nudge, like, Hey, you're going really off path here. Like, you got to go back to thinking a little more, a little more in reality, instead of thinking, you know, trauma thoughts and worst case scenario and things like that. So I love the checking in, the alarms that you're setting. That's that is really helpful.

00;42;21;09 - 00;42;46;25

Krystal, I wonder if you could share a tool or a habit or a strategy with our audience that could help people improve their lives or improve relationships with others. Is there anything you can leave the audience with? Yes, absolutely. There are a couple of things that come to mind. One of the things that I started to do more during my journey was I would I wanted to get out of my head more and get more present with others.

00;42;47;02 - 00;43;10;14

And that's not always easy to do because it's hard when you're come from an environment where it's like, okay, children should be seen and not heard. So just all of a sudden you turn that faucet on. So I started slow by doing things. When I go out to a restaurant or when I go to a grocery store, just giving more compliments as a way to get used to speaking with people more to get out of my head and to get more in the moment.

00;43;10;21 - 00;43;28;18

So giving more complements. Oh, you know, that's a great book you're reading, you know, What's that about? Oh, I like that type. Either easy things to do because we can find things we like or interest in other people and just kind of initiate a conversation that way to help us to be more comfortable speaking in front of people.

00;43;28;21 - 00;43;50;06

So another thing I wanted to mention is just this healing journey can be very, very difficult as we are working on ourselves and we kind of look back at some of the mistakes we made, some of the things that we've done that maybe we shouldn't have done, and it's so hard to look back. So forgiveness of ourselves is huge.

00;43;50;06 - 00;44;11;23

I think understanding patience as we go on this healing journey, we're going to make mistakes sometimes, but just understanding that and just, hey, getting up and we'll try it again. So say that boundary, you know, we'll say the boundary sometimes. And if for some reason we didn't get it right, try it again another time. And over time these things will get easier.

00;44;11;25 - 00;44;35;12

I would say also just the willingness to try these things is huge because again, it can be a little scary, but starting small and working our way up, we don't have to do this big thing all at once, but just trying little things and then working our way up because we'll get more comfortable with them over time. But I just want to encourage people to go after the relationships of their dreams and doesn't have to be romantic relationships, but it's a career that you're wanting.

00;44;35;17 - 00;45;02;06

If it's a certain financial situation, you want to be just going after these things with the tools that we learn as we heal our attachment style because we've become more confident in speaking with others, we're not as easily triggered, and it's so much easier to go into that situation now. Speaking with others, having a difficult conversation when we know I'm not going to get triggered anymore or as much because sometimes we're afraid of our reaction, we're going to shut down, we're going to explode or whatever it is.

00;45;02;06 - 00;45;19;13

But you know what? I'm healed now, so I know I'm going to go in and be more calm and confident and I can talk and have a conversation and there can be understanding, there can be exchange of ideas and there can be working things out. If we get stuff, we can come up with a compromise. I just wanted to encourage people in that way.

00;45;19;16 - 00;45;38;15

Oh, wow, that's super inspiring. I think you're going to benefit a lot of people with those words. So as we start to wrap up so thanks so much for being here with us. Just wanted to know, what services are you offering these days? Thank you so much for having me, Mike. I really enjoyed our time, so I am doing one on one coaching.

00;45;38;15 - 00;46;07;16

I am happy to coach with all attachment styles. I have a particular passion for dismissive avoidant men and it's because of society. They are often told, Button it up, keep your emotions down, keep a stiff upper lip. But men have motions just like everyone else does, you know? And so men have to learn how to process those needs because we say those boundaries because when we don't, it really costs us there's benefits to being able to understand our emotions.

00;46;07;23 - 00;46;31;29

And it's almost like sometimes we lose out when we don't process our emotions and we live in fear where we're missing out on opportunities. So I would say that would be the group that I have the most passion for. But I really just love working with anybody who wants to correct their attachment style, who has been stopped and who is finally seeing a light and realizing that attachment has been holding them back.

00;46;31;29 - 00;46;51;06

And now they want to just really craft the life that they've always wanted. That's amazing. I wish I met you like ten years ago, but it's so true like that. That's such a gift where you're able to hold space or for men and especially white men who, you know, it's very scary to share what's going on inside fear.

00;46;51;07 - 00;47;15;03

There's a lot of shame. There's a lot of worry that you're going to be judged negatively. And yeah, you know, we were pretty much told like not to cry and suck it up. So when we do finally get the opportunity to share with someone who, you know, would never make us feel bad or judge us negatively, like it really is a gift and it sounds like you have that gift to allow for that space to be held.

00;47;15;05 - 00;47;33;19

And as I always say, like suppression leads to depression. So if you're keeping all that stuff in, especially avoidance, I think it really does have a toll and it starts to sort of dim your light. But when you put it out there in the open and you start sharing and like kind of shine a flashlight on it, it can really help you.

00;47;33;21 - 00;47;48;18

Yeah. I just think that's great when you're offering there and I'm we're going to help a lot of people. So lastly, Krista, how can people get in touch with you? Do you have like social media or email or what's the best way that people can get in touch with you if they wanted to work with you? Yes, absolutely.

00;47;48;24 - 00;48;09;14

They can reach out to me over my website. You can connect. Well dot com as well as over LinkedIn. Awesome. So just first name. Last name, LinkedIn. Yes. And perhaps, I don't know, we can put like my LinkedIn code in the description box below, but basically. Yeah, first name. Last name. Yes, we can make it happen. Thank you.

00;48;09;16 - 00;48;24;24

Okay, Krystal, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and all your insights. I hope you had a good time here and, you know, let us know how things are going and then maybe in the future we'll revisit it and see how your coaching career is going. Thank you so much, Mike. I've had a wonderful time.

00;48;24;24 - 00;48;33;20

I appreciate it. Okay. Take care. Krystal.