Ben Glidden 
[00:00:00] Ben Glidden: It's like there's stuff stuck in there and walking for an extended period every day, like at least an hour. It kind of shakes it out. All the kinds of little things that build up throughout the days, moving your body. It brings it to conscious awareness, and then it also kind of helps resolve things.

[00:00:17] Ben Glidden: There's something about having your body engaged with some degree of fitness that. Just facilitates that whole process of regulating everything and getting things like sorted inside. At least that's how it is for me. 

[00:00:34] Thais Gibson: Hello and welcome to the Personal Development School podcast. I am so excited you're here.

[00:00:40] Thais Gibson: I am your co-host, TA Gibson, along with our new special host, Mike Dzio. This is a podcast that discusses everything related to integrated attachment theory, the new attachment theory, along with the subconscious mind relationships. Communication needs, boundaries, and so much more. Throughout this podcast, you'll see a series of episodes I upload with new information, educational tips, all about how to thrive in relationships and really master your emotional state and your life, along with special guests hosted by Mike Dzio to discuss all of these amazing topics and some longer form content.

[00:01:16] Thais Gibson: Thank you so much for being here, and I really hope you enjoy this episode.

[00:01:25] Ben Glidden: Hello 
[00:01:25] Mike DiZio: everyone and welcome to another personal Development school podcast. On today's interview series, we have a special guest who's here to talk about his journey. We'll get to learn a lot more about the dismissive, avoidant attachment style. And within the personal development school, we see dozens and dozens, hundreds and hundreds questions on, you know, how to get your DA to.

[00:01:47] Mike DiZio: Move closer to you? How do I get my DA to communicate more? How do I get my DA to share their feelings and emotions more? So, you know, it's really a treat when we get to speak to somebody who is dismissive, avoidant healed, dismissive, avoidant and kind of get to know a little more and. Dig a little deeper.

[00:02:05] Mike DiZio: So hopefully the audience can get a better idea of what's going on, sort of in the mind of the DA and what's, you know, what they need, their journey, things like that. So we're gonna get really, really in depth about that. I just wanted to mention, because this is such a topic and a question that people wanna know so much about.

[00:02:23] Mike DiZio: Tice recently did a five-part series on YouTube, and it's about understanding and connecting to a dismissive avoidant. The first episode is how to deeply connect with a dismissive avoidant. The second one's how to bypass a dismissive avoidance defenses in order to connect. Third one is, what are the dismissive avoidance top needs in a relationship?

[00:02:45] Mike DiZio: Fourth one is how to deeply understand a dismissal avoidant. And the last one is, what are the DA's expectations in relationships from others? So highly, highly recommend you watch those videos. I'll link the videos in the show notes so you can check those out. Whether you're a partner of a da, whether you have DA.

[00:03:04] Mike DiZio: Relatives, friends, family, this will be a really, really important series for you to check out. And if you're a DA as well, invite you to watch the series just to get to know a little more about yourself and understand what's going on sort of inside. Because with awareness then we can obviously take steps to healing.

[00:03:22] Mike DiZio: So onto today's episode we have a really special guest today. He's a certified integrated attachment theory coach with the personal development school. He's been a member of the school for almost four years, and he's a healing dismissive avoidant, as I mentioned outside of coaching and studying attachment theory.

[00:03:39] Mike DiZio: He's a lover of food and nature. So p d s podcast listeners and viewers, let's give a warm welcome to Ben Gliden. Hello, Ben. you doing today? 

[00:03:48] Ben Glidden: Hi buddy. Good to be here. Awesome. Nice to see 
[00:03:52] Mike DiZio: you. Ben, just simple question, let's start with your background. Can you just let us let the viewers know a little bit about your background?

[00:03:58] Ben Glidden: Yeah, Mike as you mentioned, I'm a healing dismissive avoidant and I grew up in the Midwest. I'm in my late thirties now and I spent a lot of time moving around the Midwest. I had a kind of quiet family life with mostly my mother and my dad was around a bit no siblings and not a strong connection to family on my side, but we did have a big family around, so that was nice to have when I was local to them.

[00:04:26] Ben Glidden: And then in adulthood, I've been to college a few times worked in. Support services for different people. And now I'm doing the coaching thing and I'm loving the whole attachment theory and that whole field and the opportunities there to help people. That's 

[00:04:42] Mike DiZio: excellent. Thanks for sharing.
[00:04:43] Mike DiZio: So just curious about your own journey and sort of the steps that brought you to where you are now. Was there like a catalyst or like a rock bottom moment, some sort of aha moment? Was there something that happened that sort of opened you up to diving into personal development work and healing your attachment  style?

[00:05:01] Ben Glidden: Yeah, there was a realization a few years back and this was a, a few years after my divorce, so I was actually married for a good 10 years of my adult life, most of my twenties stretching into my early thirties, and then I got a divorce and. A couple years after that, after a few like you know, kind of shallow relationships and stuff that didn't really go anywhere.

[00:05:25] Ben Glidden: There wasn't a lot of traction. I realized there's something wrong here and I think I need to look into that. So that was kind of like the rock bottom. It was the realization that. The relationships just weren't getting traction. They weren't sticking around. There was not enough material there to like hold the pieces together and make stuff stick.

[00:05:46] Ben Glidden: That's what happened. Okay, 
[00:05:48] Mike DiZio: and did you do some like searching around or like how did you sort of, obviously I know you're in the personal development school, you've been there for four years, but were you searching around for things and then you just happened to stumble upon personal development school or what was sort of the process there?

[00:06:02] Ben Glidden: So as p d s students or anybody with attachment theory background or knowledge of core wounds will know you can have a wound of I'm defective or another version as there's something wrong with me. And so I kind of had this sense throughout most of my life. So I had been dabbling in like mental health services and different.

[00:06:22] Ben Glidden: Areas of that field, you know, doing my own reading and research over the years, even since I was like a teenager, but it was off and on and I didn't really find any kind of modality that that was useful to me or that I was ready for. And so a few years ago I had this realization about my relationships, There was something that just stuck in my, or popped out in my brain and it was like, Hey, I know there's this thing called attachment theory, and I think it has something to do with like the stuff you experience in childhood affects what you experience later.

[00:07:00] Ben Glidden: And so it's sort of like a one-to-one kind of thing, like what goes before. In some sense determines what comes later. And so I had that in my head and I didn't know anything more about attachment theory. So that's when I looked it up, I was like, okay, this feels like this, this could be something. So I Googled it.

[00:07:18] Mike DiZio: Good old Google for healing. Mm-hmm. No, but I'm really glad you found the personal development school. You touched on the I am defective core wound. That was definitely one that I struggled with massively most of my life. Before I knew about attachment style as well, I'm sure I've mentioned in previous podcasts, but dismissive, avoidant was like my highest percentage and then fearful avoidant, following very closely behind.

[00:07:43] Mike DiZio: Mm-hmm. So I'm not like a true da, but I definitely have a lot of the DA wounds. I am defective was huge. Like, I remember even meeting girls and like, if they wanted to date me, I'd tell 'em like, just to let you know, like I, I, I'm screwed up. Like I have some serious problems and like mm-hmm. Just trying to let them know like, I don't know what I'm doing.

[00:08:02] Mike DiZio: In relationships and like, I'm probably gonna upset you or frustrate you. Like it almost came with like a, a warning, you know what I mean? Because I felt so, so screwed up and I felt like I'd just gotten like a, a raw deal in, in sort of the personality in what I was given. So the IED defective hormones is not a fun one.

[00:08:21] Mike DiZio: Mm-hmm. But it can definitely be reprogrammed. whatever was programmed into you as a child, you can program out anything that's programmed in, you can reprogram. So that's, that's the beauty of all this kind of work. But I know for das it can be really scary cuz a lot of it involves sort of vulnerability and digging into emotions and, you know, things that usually avoidance are scared of and want to push away.

[00:08:44] Mike DiZio: to anybody out there. Avoidance who are doing sort of the work. Lots of of respect because it can be scary and uncomfortable. But as we'll find out a little later in the interview hearing Ben's journey, you know, it, it's it's worth it and, and you're worth it. So, yeah. And you mentioned, so you didn't know about attachment theory at all before you joined Personal development school was something that was totally new to you when 

[00:09:06] Ben Glidden: you Yeah, it was.
[00:09:08] Ben Glidden: It was like something that I had read about, you know, so many years ago. Really briefly, just enough to know that there was like this kind of cause and effect thing from early formative years to. What I'm experiencing now. And when that popped in my head randomly, I was like, okay, this, this feels like something worth looking at.

[00:09:28] Ben Glidden: And so I found Taiz through that pretty quickly. Nice. That's 
[00:09:32] Mike DiZio: excellent. So I know you've done a lot of work to become more secure. So, and we know you're a da. What would you say is the most hardest or some of the most challenging things that have Happened to you as a result of being dismissive avoidant.

[00:09:46] Mike DiZio: What, what were some of the most challenging things in the 
[00:09:48] Ben Glidden: past that you found? Oh gosh. Yeah, so much. so my, my da attachment style is pretty, broadly applied. So I know in like the, in p d s, we have the attachment quiz, and now it has the family and the friends and romantic relationships included there. And so looking back, growing up, you know, I spent. A lot of time alone. And so I had a few friends growing up, you know, close friends, but the emotional connection wasn't really strong.

[00:10:22] Ben Glidden: And so I didn't connect well with family. At least I didn't feel it on my side. And then also romantically, I You know, I just had a few kind of, I don't wanna say meaningless, but pretty shallow relationships. When I was younger, before I got married, and then with friendships, it was kind of the same thing.

[00:10:41] Ben Glidden: Like I had really good attachments, but the, I guess this is a, this is a common thing for like a lot of men where we, we hang out and we can be really close and know each other really well for a long time. But there is, A whole field of stuff that we never delve into, that we never talk about.

[00:10:59] Ben Glidden: And then for me, I think it was ramped up, so I had just like a few, like a handful of close friends here and there as I grew up and I moved around a lot. So that kind of helped or that kind of I think reinforced what was going on on my side. And then when I was. Married, this is the typical kind of da or the avoidant anxious thing.

[00:11:21] Ben Glidden: And I just did not have the tools for the entire duration. And it's, it's sad, but I didn't have the awareness of what was going on. I didn't, I didn't understand what was going on. And there's little times of therapy and, Me looking for help in various ways, but it didn't really have the tools, like enough pieces and even the stuff that I, that I looked at didn't have the explanatory power that I needed to get traction and to get things figured out to, to, to kinda develop a more empowered state.

[00:11:54] Ben Glidden: And then after marriage, it was the same kind of thing romantically. It was shallow relationships. There's there's fear there and like you had I actually thought I was pretty fa when I got to the school for quite a long time because I did have the kind of body of fa wounds and stories and meanings and things.

[00:12:14] Ben Glidden: Layered on top of the, the ground layer, the base layer of DA stuff such that I kind of like my conscious mind existed in that stuff. And I didn't know that I was DA because it wasn't even accessible. So that was a really weird experience to, to kind of. Be that out of touch with myself for so long until things started to click through some of the practices.

[00:12:42] Ben Glidden: But
[00:12:43] Ben Glidden: Yeah, my attachment style was pervasive. It covered everything. It covered friends, friendships family relationships, romantic relationships, even professional relationships, and My sense of living the world and, the things I was involved in, activities I did, hobbies everything.
[00:13:03] Ben Glidden: It was, it was pervasive. Yeah. 

[00:13:06] Mike DiZio: Wow. You touched on a lot of things there. I just wanted to ask, during your marriage, the 10 year marriage, did you feel, because you had know, you had the I am defective wound, I'm not good enough wound. Were you putting sort of a lot of the problems on yourself as if like, okay, I'm the problem here, I gotta, I have to change myself because if I wasn't so screwed up, this relationship would probably be fine.

[00:13:28] Ben Glidden: Yeah. I absolutely was, and it's kind of the classic thing where you have that subconscious wound that is forming your interpretation of your experiences. And so you can pour helpful things into that, but if it doesn't get at the root, then you're still pouring everything into. A whole labeled, I am not enough.

[00:13:53] Ben Glidden: I'm defective, I'm bad. All these things. And so it's like there wasn't any there's all these little epiphany moments after you read something. Mm-hmm. That sounds so and, and life changing. But if it doesn't change the root of the issue. Then it's not changed and you actually kind of feel worse because that was another thing that felt so right, that was gonna help you.

[00:14:19] Ben Glidden: And then it didn't pan out. It didn't do what you thought it might do. Totally. Yeah. 

[00:14:25] Mike DiZio: You feel good for a week and you're like, oh my God, this is amazing. I've hit goal. Yeah. And like finally the rest of my life's gonna be good and comfortable. And then a week later you're sorta back to where you were and you know that, that week where you felt so great, sort of like a distant memory and you're like, oh my gosh, what do I have to do here?

[00:14:44] Ben Glidden: Yeah. Oh, and another thing on that, like the, like did I feel that sense of responsibility? I absolutely did. And so I had the wounds, I blame myself, this is my problem. It was I'm defective, I'm not good enough. Mm-hmm. Et cetera. Mm-hmm. But I also still had that, that classic, you know, when you don't have The tools.

[00:15:02] Ben Glidden: And then of course there was like blame for my partner, right? Absolutely. For sure. Like, 
[00:15:06] Mike DiZio: she's too crazier, she's got too much going on, 

[00:15:09] Ben Glidden: or you know, blah, blah, blah. It's, it's like when you are met with the body of somebody else's expression and experience that is More emotionally engaged and has like a more, a wider emotional range that for us, like that looks crazy because it's, we don't feel that, and so it's like, what is this person doing?

[00:15:29] Ben Glidden: You know, what is going on in their head? And and so yeah, since I didn't have the tools to understand what was going on and take responsibility for myself, I was with those wounds. Those stories, like, oh, it's all my fault and I'm defective and there's something, yeah, there's something wrong with me and that's why it's not working.

[00:15:47] Ben Glidden: These are not ways that are real methods of taking responsibility and accountability, right? They're just wounds that are interpreting your experience so they're not actually productive mechanisms, and so why not throw in some blame for other people into the mix, you know, that makes it feel better in the moment, but.

[00:16:06] Ben Glidden: You're not going anywhere with that? 
[00:16:08] Mike DiZio: No, for sure. We're already blaming and shaming, and then if we just keep piling it on mm-hmm. And then with our partner adding to it, like it's just deepens, deepens the wounds even more. Right. So, yeah. And I definitely resonate with what you mentioned about how, you know, you could blame it on your ex-partners.

[00:16:24] Mike DiZio: Like I used to point to all my exes, like, oh, this one was too clingy, or this one was too, she was crazy. Like, it was always the other person who was causing issues. And it wasn't obviously until I examined, you know, my wounds and how they played a part in all of it. Yeah. Then once you sort of heal those wounds, then you start to see how much, how much power and how much you can affect the relationship in a positive way.

[00:16:47] Mike DiZio: Instead of feeling disempowered and, you know, always blaming it on the other person, which which we know doesn't really go anywhere. So what would you say has been one of the biggest areas of inner growth? We'll start with sort of inner growth and then we can talk about relationship changes, but sort of like inner growth.

[00:17:03] Mike DiZio: Can you think of any areas that you've really changed by doing this work? 

[00:17:06] Ben Glidden: Yeah, and I'm gonna frame it just in terms of like, The B T E A equation that we have in the school. Beliefs, thoughts, emotions, actions, and for anybody listening that doesn't know, it's kind of a chain of causality, a chain of like a related chain within us where we have emotions that are connected to.

[00:17:31] Ben Glidden: Thoughts and stories. And so they kind of spring from the thoughts. And then we have core beliefs under that that inform the stories. Those are like the deeper, more concrete beliefs that are kind of pervasive. And then all the little stories about the little experiences come from that. And then of course we have actions which are just our actions in the world.

[00:17:52] Ben Glidden: And All of these things, each part of that chain, the B T E A is something we can look at and use that to kind of fill out our knowledge of the other parts of that chain. And so if we don't have the self knowledge we don't have experience with that, then we might look at our behavior. Like for me, it'd be.

[00:18:11] Ben Glidden: Binging television, like just watching, watching TV for a really long time. And that's the action. So then what is the emotion connected to that? Or what is the, what is the belief connected to that? The underlying deeper belief or even just the thoughts, the stories. And a lot of that can just be You know, we can fill that out using any part on that that we can access.

[00:18:37] Ben Glidden: So what, I guess what the biggest area of growth for me is learning that inner causality, learning the inner related, the inner relatedness of. All the parts of me, everything that I'm doing and thinking and feeling all the time, and how it's connected to my bodily sensations, like the emotions showing up as feelings in the body as feedback.

[00:19:01] Ben Glidden: That's the biggest growth. That's the part that I was totally numb to for my whole life. And so I, I would say like I could experience the negative emotions for sure. I think maybe if somebody asked me in those times what I felt, I might say like, oh, I'm pissed off, or I'm irritated, or whatever. I think a lot of times I would say I don't feel anything.

[00:19:22] Ben Glidden: It's nothing, you know, just endless repression, endless denial. But getting into that whole inner experience and realizing that everything is connected. And everything is kind of feedback that can lead to other dimensions of awareness. That's been my biggest growth and it's something that I still work on today for sure.

[00:19:45] Ben Glidden: I still enjoy it. Learning. Learning the inner world. 
[00:19:49] Mike DiZio: Yeah, for sure. And especially for avoidance, like our range, because we suppressed emotions at such a young age, like emoting, we, we tried, it didn't feel safe, it didn't get met with, love and attention or whatever we needed. So we learned at a very young age to sort of, Suppress those emotions and feelings.

[00:20:07] Mike DiZio: So then in adulthood, you know, I make the joke that there's a feelings wheel that you can kind of Google online and there's like a list of like 80 different shades of how you can be feeling at a certain time. Mm-hmm. And usually like dismissal, avoidance, you could, their feelings wheel is like maybe four quadrants.

[00:20:23] Mike DiZio: Good, bad. Happy, angry. Like there's not the big range. So really part of the work and what helps so much and you explained in personal development school is kind of getting to more in touch with your emotions and feelings and getting to use those as feedback. And with B T A A, you get to have a bird's eye view of what's going on on the inside.

[00:20:43] Mike DiZio: If you never really analyze that, you don't really see the chain of events that happen through beliefs, thoughts, emotions, and actions. So it's really wonderful when you get to put that on paper and see how when you change some of the variables, you can change the output. that's really great.
[00:20:58] Mike DiZio: Thanks for, for sharing that with us. So then in your relationships, what would you say sort of, since you've done this healing work, How have your relationships changed, whether it be romantic relationship, family, friends where have you seen sort of growth and change? 

[00:21:11] Ben Glidden: Yeah, this is huge too, and it's still ongoing, of course, for me.
[00:21:14] Ben Glidden: But the changes are kind of astronomical. Like I never, I, I didn't even have the, ability to imagine the kind of. Things that I experience now in all these areas. So it's pretty cool. I guess I'll start with family. And I'm still working on like being closer to them. We don't have any like extreme rifts in our family or, or anything like that.
[00:21:35] Ben Glidden: It's just for me my side, it's the pervasive distance, the pervasive feeling of disconnection and just kind of like. Stepping out over time and exploring that and getting closer to family members, having more vulnerable

 connections, and especially on my side, releasing a lot of the negative beliefs there.

[00:21:56] Ben Glidden: It, it was like, Due to like the, the absence of the connection on my side, I kind of had this feeling that was like, who are these people? You know? 

[00:22:05] Mike DiZio: They trying to connect with you and you, like, they weren't all avoidance and your family, it was more people trying to get closer to you and you were the one kind of.

[00:22:12] Mike DiZio: Only going, yeah. 
[00:22:13] Ben Glidden: I think there's probably a little bit of avoidance, like sprinkle around, but it's mostly, it's like people kind of reaching out to me over the years. Recurringly and then me feeling kind of weird about it. Like, oh, what is this? And then creating that distance. And so, you know, one thing that we do is we can kind of interpret avoidance.

[00:22:32] Ben Glidden: On the part of other people, but it's actually something that we're creating through, just maintaining that level in the relationship without knowing it. And so I think that was a big, that was like a, a constant for me. Mm-hmm. With family. So now it's not really about repairing conflicts or, or Engaging in like forgiveness and stuff like that.

[00:22:55] Ben Glidden: I mean, there's always that with every relationship, but it's more like me feeling progressively more comfortable through exposure of like dipping my foot in the water and then getting closer to, to people and feeling comfortable there. Right. And, and seeing, you know, how does it feel? How does it go? And it turns out that when you do a lot of the work, And you have the awareness of like triggers and core wounds and you know, your personality needs and stuff.

[00:23:24] Ben Glidden: Then there's a lot more of a landscape there to explore than we may have previously thought. So that's just the family romantic. It's kind of the same thing, but that one for me always had a little bit more difficult triggers. And that's where like the FA stuff. Kind of popped out a little bit. But it feels really good to, to be able to examine those triggers in the moment and then talk about them with a partner to explore that stuff.

[00:23:53] Ben Glidden: And this is a crazy thing for my avoidance side, is not having this language before to even explore this stuff and talk about it. Now it's present and to see myself. Continually talking through an issue with a partner and finding it come to like a satisfying resolution for everybody, like all the time.

[00:24:15] Ben Glidden: And I'm sure it's not gonna be all the time. It's, it's not gonna be like that for the rest of my life perfectly, but, The batting average is great and it's, it's awesome to just have conversations that lead somewhere to lead to a resolution and then both people go away feeling really satisfied. And then if there's literally like stuff that you didn't feel you know, little unaddressed parts, things that, that maybe stuff that you felt in your body, but it didn't rise to your conscious mind.

[00:24:43] Ben Glidden: Mm-hmm. Cuz you're avoiding that stuff. It's always there and it's safe and it's welcome and it's, and it's fruitful to just bring it up later when you do have the awareness. And so it's, it's like there's no constant need to repress things, deny things. There's no pervasive need to. To just avoid in general.

[00:25:04] Ben Glidden: Yeah. You don't have to avoid stuff. You can, you can address it and it feels good and it feels better that way. So that's it for the, the romantic, I mean, I'm sure there's so much more. 

[00:25:14] Mike DiZio: Yeah. Just to, just to touch on that, I just wanna share my experience too. Yeah. And if you can resonate as well, but I would always be so afraid to share for fear of like, I already thought I was defective and screwed up, so I was worried that what I would say would be like, What's wrong with you?

[00:25:29] Mike DiZio: Like, you, you think that like, so I was so worried about saying kind of the wrong thing, I would almost ask people now like, I wanna share something and it's vulnerable and, and I'm worried that you're gonna judge me for it, I, I almost need someone to gimme assurance that like, listen, I would rather you say whatever you ha like what's going on inside of you, let me know.

[00:25:47] Mike DiZio: Like, that is way more gonna be helpful and then we can work through this together than you holding it in and, and feeling shame or feeling, you know, like, you're gonna upset me or say something that's wrong. Mm-hmm. So really, like, I, I still, it's hard for me sometimes, but. Just for anybody out there who tries to get their maybe avoidant to open up, just know, like, if you can assure safety that you're not gonna blow up, you're not gonna get mad.

[00:26:12] Mike DiZio: Like you might not love what the person's gonna say, or they might say something that might be like, oh geez, I didn't know you thought that. But obviously like letting them know it's, it's 8,000 times better to. Let me know now, it might be a little hurtful, but then at least, you know, they'll know the score, they'll know what's going on, and then you can actually work towards something together.

[00:26:32] Mike DiZio: Does that sort of resonate with you and, and how you were in the past 

[00:26:35] Ben Glidden: versus Yeah, completely. And that's something that's still, like, there's a little there's a tiny little layer of feeling like a shade. Of shame around being vulnerable and bringing stuff up because it's like, Hey, I have this issue that I need reassurance on.
[00:26:51] Ben Glidden: And yeah, my old comfort zone was, was to feel ashamed about that and to never bring anything up. Yeah. But now it's, it's, really beautiful and reassuring to receive. Or to be able to express those things like an insecurity about something and then have my partner say that's not a problem. And yeah, I don't feel anything bad about you sharing it.

[00:27:16] Ben Glidden: In fact, I'm glad you shared it. Totally. And to, to have that flip is kind of mind blowing cuz that's up For das for avoidance. That's like a really core dynamic is the shame around vulnerability, appearing to be weak and to not have everything. Figured out and to not be perfectly strong and impenetrable and untouchable.
[00:27:38] Ben Glidden: You know, it's like That's fine. Yeah. 

[00:27:41] Mike DiZio: And it's such exposure response too. A like, you go to do it maybe the first time and you're like, it's almost like throwing a grenade and then like waiting for For the backlash. But then when they're like, That's okay. Like that's not that big of a problem.

[00:27:52] Mike DiZio: You're like, really? Oh, okay. So the more you do it, then the more you get comfortable with it. And like you said, it really does bring you closer to your partner. The more they can know about what's going on inside of you, the more they feel honored that you're sharing with them. And the more they can know sort of what your triggers are and you know how, how you operate.

[00:28:12] Mike DiZio: We always want to know sort of what's going on with the other person. Otherwise you have to guess. And we all know when you have to play guesswork, how, how well that goes. So that's that's great. I, I love that and I love that you've had that growth for yourself. Okay. So I just wanna move the conversation into you know, we love to know what people are doing on a regular basis to sort of keep themselves in a good place to keep them grounded.

[00:28:36] Mike DiZio: So, you know, you hear a lot about self-care when you watch personal development videos. I just wanna know what does self-care look like for, for Ben? 

[00:28:44] Ben Glidden: Yeah, for me it's. Always keeping on top of my food. so for whatever reason, I think I've never had like a big internal response to like hunger.

[00:28:56] Ben Glidden: And that's just something that that's not there for me. And so I remember growing up and even into adulthood, I'd get severely low blood sugar and and feel really, really wonky and. That would do like emotional stuff, right? When you have low blood sugar but I never felt like the hunger pangs.

[00:29:14] Ben Glidden: It would just be like, oh, I'm in a really bad mood and I've been there for three hours, and then I would eat a bunch of calories and it just goes away and I feel fine. And so for me keeping my calories like topped off, like making sure I'm eating healthy food and enough food all the time. You know, for my weight and, and my activity level is really important and I have to do that in the absence of like body impulses that are telling me that it's something that I have to do cognitively or with a schedule and stuff.

[00:29:46] Ben Glidden: So I have to keep that in mind. So that's super duper basic self-care. That's like survival care, you know? But it's something I have to consciously think about. So it's kind of, that's kind of a weird one. But other than that activity for sure movement, I need that. And I wanna say that's like an absolute must every day.

[00:30:07] Ben Glidden: But I, you know, I know there's days that I drop it and I don't feel as good as a result of that, but walking helps me. You know, it regulates my nervous system. It helps me process really well and meditate as I walk. So I have, it's kind of like I don't know how to, how to put this. It's like there's stuff stuck in there.

[00:30:26] Ben Glidden: Mm-hmm. And walking for an extended period every day, like at least an hour. It like it kind of shakes it out. Oh. And it's sort of like Tetris, like you have all the little different colored block pieces and they're different shapes and stuff, and they all, the objective is to get 'em down to the bottom, but then have them be in flush.

[00:30:44] Ben Glidden: Complete rows so they can be removed. I hope people know what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure everybody does. it's like having those, those blocks shaken down and so then they can kind of like just be released or whatever, and I don't, yeah, it's, it's like emotions and unaddressed stories, all the kinds of little things that build up throughout the days that maybe you don't.

[00:31:08] Ben Glidden: You're not always thinking consciously of, but then doing something like that, moving your body, it brings it to conscious awareness and then it also kind of helps resolve things. And there's something, I don't know the exact mechanism at this point in time, but there's something about having your body engaged with some degree of fitness or, or, or, you know, like a higher level of activity.

[00:31:30] Ben Glidden: Mm-hmm. That. Just facilitates that whole process of regulating everything and getting things like sorted inside. At least that's how it is for me. So that's a big one. And then there's like meditation You know, there are a lot of different types of meditation and so I dabble in different types. I'm by no means an expert in any of that.

[00:31:50] Ben Glidden: But it's kind of, I just feel it out and see what I need at the time. Whether I need to do like a body scans focus on my body whether I need to. Meditate and kind of like watch the thoughts, you know, watch the thoughts like leaves, go down the stream and not, not pursue them, not engage with them, but just accept that they're there and observe them and then let them go and then see what comes next.

[00:32:14] Ben Glidden: That's a really good one. Breathing focusing on the breath is always good and there's a lot of different ways to go about that and so I'm still kind of playing with that. But Some form of meditation every day is really important. And also like bodily care. Mm-hmm. To some degree, you know, along with the exercise, like caring for my body and my appearance, and you got the, you know, the diet, caring for my diet sleep, all that stuff kind of integrated together.

[00:32:43] Ben Glidden: That's really important for me because it's like me caring for myself. Me being present with myself and having that awareness and that attunement to, to show myself consistent love there. And that's, that's kind of important for all of us to experience. But for me it's been, it's been a, a subject of like focused intention for a while.

[00:33:07] Mike DiZio: Those are great. Those are really amazing and I love the Tetris analogy. I've never heard it before, but I think that's really, really cool. Do you actually like visualize the, the Tetris board as you're walking or you just have that analogy as that's No, I'm using, 

[00:33:22] Ben Glidden: I'm using, I have that analogy cuz that's one that kind of fits.
[00:33:25] Ben Glidden: I also feel like I don't know what it is, but there's like a machine where You see it like casinos or something, I don't know. But it has, it's like a vertical board that has a whole bunch of pins in it. Yeah. And then you operate it in like a disk or a coin or something, or a ball drops down from above and it bounces between all that.

[00:33:43] Ben Glidden: Yeah. And then sometimes it's a lot of them. Right. And you want it to go in certain areas. And that's another thing that's very similar to the Tetris analogy. It's just that's the what it kind of feels like. Yeah. If I could describe the somatic. Experience in visual form. That's what it is. Like stuff kind of getting sorted and falling out and then no longer being present.

[00:34:04] Ben Glidden: Right? Yeah. 
[00:34:06] Mike DiZio: The, and the food analogy was so spot on. Like I was laughing during it because I. You know, me and you were talking a little before the interview, and I think we have so many similar things that we, you know, have struggled with and have had to overcome and whatnot, but like the eating thing, for me, it's so basic.

[00:34:23] Mike DiZio: It's a survival need, but because I can sometimes be so in my head and so worried about other stuff, I just don't pay attention to like, What my body needs in the moment. So that's why it's so important to check in regularly with your body, which avoidance are not always used to doing. But yeah, I can't tell you how many times we're like, you know, I'll have to start like a, a Zoom meeting, and then two minutes into the meeting I'm like starting to feel like tired and weak and I'm like, oh my God, I'm starving right now.

[00:34:50] Mike DiZio: A few minutes before that I didn't even realize it, right. Mm-hmm. But if I was checking in with my body regularly, I would've known, okay. Give yourself a snack, you know, you're starting to feel a little dip in the energy. It's time to, to eat. So I totally resonate with you. And yeah, maybe it sounds funny for some people cuz it's a basic survival need, but I totally get you there and I, I love how now you know, you're really checking in and you're making sure that you're.

[00:35:14] Mike DiZio: Those needs are taken care of. Mm-hmm. So that's really great. Thanks for sharing. 

[00:35:19] Ben Glidden: Can I add something on there? Yeah, of course. Go ahead. I think, and this is just for like the listeners, but it's, it's totally connects to like needs integration and needs awareness, and needs strategizing. Because for me, I do the same thing where like I get involved in something and then I'm like, oh my God, I'm starving, or I'm really thirsty, or whatever.

[00:35:39] Ben Glidden: Or I'm super tired and I didn't take care of that previously. Well, well enough. But then I'm also, it's usually like I'm in an experience where I am focused on another need and that's just kind of going, and I'm a little bit on that, like in that autopilot zone where I'm just kind of following the trail.

[00:35:56] Ben Glidden: Like, maybe I'm at work and I'm really focused on something or maybe I'm painting or reading or whatever. And it's like there's a little bit of hyper fixation on that activity. Mm-hmm. And so the other one is not present. And that kind of shows that I still have work to do on like needs integration and strategizing.

[00:36:16] Ben Glidden: And then maybe a little bit of scheduling and sticking to that. But yeah. 

[00:36:20] Mike DiZio: it's so funny. was just thinking what, I get two minutes into the Zoom meeting and I find it, I'm starving. Then the next 58 minutes, I'm like, starting to feel like panicky. And I'm like, almost, yeah. Like my mind's, my, my brain almost says like, we're not doing any creative thought for you anymore.

[00:36:36] Mike DiZio: Yeah. Until food. And then I'm really worried that I'm not gonna show up well in the meeting and what I'm sharing isn't really making sense, and it just turns into a whole, like just crazy time. So, yeah, definitely checking in with the body is super important regularly. And if you stop and listen, it's sort of always telling you what you need and what's gonna sort of bring you to the most happiness, most energy, most creative flow.

[00:37:00] Mike DiZio: So that's really, really interesting. So I guess we talked about routines, non-negotiables. Let's go on a little more fun stuff. What, what does Ben like to do for fun? What does Ben like to do when he lets his beautiful long hair down? 
[00:37:13] Ben Glidden: Yeah. I had mentioned painting. I'm getting into that recently and I'm loving that.

[00:37:17] Ben Glidden: I do some reading. It's kind of funny cuz I hate to read, but I also love to know things and I also love to engage with like, the mind of authors. But sometimes that can be a lot. So I am one of those people that have re, you know, regularly buys books and regularly stacks them up and doesn't read 'em all.

[00:37:39] Ben Glidden: But I'm working on it, you know, you're working at like, working on like five books at once and that's, that's me. Slowly doing that. Another, let's see. Yeah, painting. I love nature. I love being out in nature. I love walking and I love to just experience it and see new things out there. I do have a little bit of hobby interest in like natural sciences, and it's not very deep, but like, I don't know, not know that much, but I love to know about the plants and geology, the rocks and like every single thing that goes into my environment at all times.

[00:38:15] Ben Glidden: It's just super fascinating for me. Mm-hmm. So I can get into all that stuff. I love seeing wild animals. Let me see. I like to watch TV for sure, but the needs are limited. So that's, that's becoming a rare occurrence, which is, is nice cuz that can just be like a time suck for me. And then socializing for me, that's been a big thing.

[00:38:36] Ben Glidden: And I guess that's something I didn't focus on in the, the question before about changes in relationships, but having my friendship. My friendships change drastically has been a big like a big area of growth. And so lots of the negative beliefs and things around there have been, have received a lot of work and I'm experiencing the fruits of that so Nice.

[00:39:00] Mike DiZio: Yeah. Yeah. For myself and friends, I, I think I met my friends when I was in my most, you know, people pleasing. Times And then now that I've done a lot of healing on my wounds, I can really show up as myself and be myself. And it's just a lot more energy management, not not using as much ener energy as I'm hanging out with my friends worried about like, oh, did I say the right thing?

[00:39:20] Mike DiZio: Was that funny enough? So it's really beautiful, again, healing the wounds, how the relationship with your friends change. Okay. So we're getting towards the end of the podcast and again, Ben, thanks for being here. So I wanted to let our viewers know and maybe give them an insight if there's someone who's listening, who's watching, who is da is maybe just finding out about their attachment style.

[00:39:40] Mike DiZio: And wants to dig into this work, but might feel a little scared, worried, nervous, or even not believing that they can change, they're just sort of too far gone. What would you sort of say to them as somebody who, three years ago who might have been going through the same thing? 
[00:39:56] Ben Glidden: So there are so many areas that have changed so much in my life, and I would say that.

[00:40:03] Ben Glidden: Even though there's times where it's been painful, especially for me as an avoidant with learning to slowly feel safe with the emotions over time, kind of like sticking with that. Discomfort has been the most valuable thing because what you get from it is so huge. And I have these skills with me for the rest of my life.

[00:40:26] Ben Glidden: I know them and I'm gonna bring them with me everywhere I go. And also, as I'm exposed to new experiences, I have these with me and so I can I can address everything that arises, everything that I encounter and do the processing look at the meaning that I'm giving it. There's like way too much there, but I would say that the tools are there and it's worth it. And you can do it in a way that feels comfortable for you. So it doesn't feel too scary, uncomfortable, or even unsafe. You can do it in a way that's really caring for yourself. And I wouldn't, you know, even if I had, I had only done like one of the courses or only got a little bit of coaching, then I would have.

[00:41:09] Ben Glidden: Benefited greatly and never wanted to go back, but to keep going with it, it's, it's obvious for me. It's totally worth it. That's so 

[00:41:16] Mike DiZio: beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to also mention any dismissive avoidance who are thinking about possibly joining the school like. Our community's so supportive and like helpful, and I know maybe, you know, you might see comments on YouTube videos when there's a DA video or Instagram comments and you know, das can get like a pretty bad rap and might feel like everybody, is ripping on them and doesn't like them.

[00:41:42] Mike DiZio: Really in the schools it's complete opposite. And I host a lot of the weekly community routines that we hold and people love it when das show up. They first of all give so much respect and really happy that they're coming there to do the brave work, but they love to hear from them as well. When they share, everybody just like wants to hear what's going on because das aren't as, as apt to sort of open up and share their inner world.

[00:42:08] Mike DiZio: So when das are sharing in my routines, I see people really. Just loving it and getting so much information from it and hearing what's, what's happening for their inner world so they can apply it to their relationships and understand what's going on there. And we have so many, I call 'em da whispers in the school who just, they understand das now, they now really know exactly how to get them to open up and, and what they need.

[00:42:34] Mike DiZio: But again, knowing their part in how they can heal themselves, it's not all about like coddling, a dismissive avoidant and, rearranging your whole life and your needs and your wants, just to make sure that they're comfortable. It's not about that at all. But the more you know about someone and their trauma, the more you know about you and your trauma and your triggers, it's just gonna be a lot easier to make it work with someone.

[00:42:57] Mike DiZio: So yeah, just dismissal, avoidance. Just know, like if you come into the personal development school, you'll see how, how nice and. And friendly and supportive. Everyone is, and Ben, Ben works for Personal Development School. Now you'd, you'd see him at webinars and community events and all sorts of places.
[00:43:13] Mike DiZio: So yeah, we, we hope that some people will take the challenge and, and join and, and come and grow with us. Okay. So as we close, Ben, what are you offering these days? Is there services? Yeah, so 

[00:43:25] Ben Glidden: we're gear up to do some more webinars to add a little bit More support there for people in other time zones That'll be happening in the next couple weeks.

[00:43:33] Ben Glidden: And probably by the time this podcast is out, it'll already be live for sure. But then also through p d s, you can go into the coaching section and find a coach. And I'm there among a few others of highly qualified people. And so I'm offering, one-on-one coaching and We kind of do like, it's, it can be kind of anything you you want, but the typical structure is like a 12 or 16 week thing, and that's going through the tools.

[00:44:03] Ben Glidden: Gaining probably not mastery, but I'm there to just kind of facilitate teaching you the tools and giving you enough of a handle on that, that you can then take that and take that with you for like the rest of your life. So it's kind of a, it's, it's like a and results oriented approach.

[00:44:22] Ben Glidden: So it's, it's, it's really supportive and I've benefited from that with other people. And so I'm offering that and I'm very pleased to do so. 

[00:44:31] Mike DiZio: That's amazing. And if anybody a non-member wanted to get ahold of you are doing coaching outside or is it mainly at the moment? Coaching just through the personal development school.

[00:44:41] Ben Glidden: So right now it's just through the personal development school and I might have like an outside line. At some point. But yeah, just go to the, the coaching page on the p d s website and I'm right there. And you don't have to be like a subscribing member of p d s, like taking the courses or anything like that to, to sign up for coaching.

[00:45:01] Ben Glidden: It's a, it's available to members and non-members. 

[00:45:04] Mike DiZio: Perfect. Okay. And we'll link we'll put some links in the show notes if anybody's interested in working with Ben. Then that would be great. Ben, that was really awesome. Thank you so much. Is there anything else you wanna say before we call it a day?
[00:45:18] Ben Glidden: No, I think we said a lot. That's a good, yeah. 

[00:45:22] Mike DiZio: Said a lot for dismissal. Avoid it. This was informative and fun and I hope our listeners enjoyed this one and yeah. Thanks for coming. Appreciate it. Yeah.